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Newbie Qs on stalls and spins



 
 
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  #11  
Old November 17th 04, 03:39 AM
G.R. Patterson III
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Andrew Sarangan wrote:

Every landing involves a stall.


Almost all of my landings do not involve a stall. The aircraft is flown onto the
ground in a three-point attitude just above the stall. That's if I do it right.

In the last couple of years I owned my 150, none of my landings in that plane
involved a stall.

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
been looking for it.
  #12  
Old November 17th 04, 03:41 AM
Andrew Sarangan
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I have to respectfully disagree. A short field landing is where you
plonk the airplane on the runway while it still has some flying speed.
If the airplane is slow enough, the landing impact will absorb enough
energy to prevent a bounce back into the air. On a normal landing, it is
quite possible to squeeze out every bit of excess airspeed in the flare.
When the airplane starts to descend despite the pilot's attempts is what
we normally consider as the onset of stall. Perhaps the word 'fall' is a
bit too strong for this situation because you are not falling more than
a few inches. If you are only inches above the runway, the vertical
speed will be virtually zero, and the touchdown should be smooth.
However, it is quite possible to land an airplane in flying speed as you
described as long as it is not too fast. I believe in this case you are
using the energy dissipation due to the touchdown to prevent the
airplane from bouncing back.




"Peter Duniho" wrote in
:

"Andrew Sarangan" wrote in message
7...
Every landing involves a stall.


No, not every landing does. In fact, preferably few do.

But that is not the same as a stall during
flight because you don't fall more than a few inches.


IMHO, it is generally poor technique to "fall" at all during a
landing. One exception is a short field landing where minimum
airspeed is the highest priority, even if it means a "firm" landing.
There may be other exceptions, but otherwise the landing should be a
smooth, controlled descent with the airplane still flying when the
tires touch the pavement and vertical speed as close to zero as
possible.

Pete





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  #13  
Old November 17th 04, 03:43 AM
G.R. Patterson III
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Peter Duniho wrote:

IMHO, it is generally poor technique to "fall" at all during a landing. One
exception is a short field landing where minimum airspeed is the highest
priority, even if it means a "firm" landing.


And, even with a short field landing, my aircraft is not stalled when flown
properly. I am likely to have a high enough descent rate for it to be a "firm"
landing; however, if I time the last burst of throttle correctly, even that
won't be the case.

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
been looking for it.
  #15  
Old November 17th 04, 04:23 AM
Newps
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G.R. Patterson III wrote:


Peter Duniho wrote:

IMHO, it is generally poor technique to "fall" at all during a landing. One
exception is a short field landing where minimum airspeed is the highest
priority, even if it means a "firm" landing.



And, even with a short field landing, my aircraft is not stalled when flown
properly. I am likely to have a high enough descent rate for it to be a "firm"
landing; however, if I time the last burst of throttle correctly, even that
won't be the case.


When I want to wedge my 182 into a short space I fly the plane at about
45 mph indicated on very short final and land like a Navy pilot. No
real flare, just hold attitude and smash into the ground. Not enough
energy to bounce back in the air. Brakes semi-locked, pull the power,
stopped in 400 feet.
  #16  
Old November 17th 04, 05:42 AM
Rich Lemert
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Bob Gardner wrote:

You will never experience a stall in a "commercial"
aircraft.


I wouldn't be too complacent about this. There were some articles
about the American crash in New York shortly after 9/11 that were
discussing why the rudder had apparently torn off of the aircraft.
At least one of those articles discussed another incident involving
the same type of plane, in which the stress of the incident _almost_
tore off it's rudder. No one paid much attention to the fact at the
time, though, because they were more concerned with figuring out why
the pilots had allowed the plane to stall.

Rich Lemert

  #17  
Old November 17th 04, 05:46 AM
Jay Beckman
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"Newps" wrote in message
...


G.R. Patterson III wrote:


Peter Duniho wrote:

IMHO, it is generally poor technique to "fall" at all during a landing.
One
exception is a short field landing where minimum airspeed is the highest
priority, even if it means a "firm" landing.



And, even with a short field landing, my aircraft is not stalled when
flown
properly. I am likely to have a high enough descent rate for it to be a
"firm"
landing; however, if I time the last burst of throttle correctly, even
that
won't be the case.


When I want to wedge my 182 into a short space I fly the plane at about 45
mph indicated on very short final and land like a Navy pilot. No real
flare, just hold attitude and smash into the ground. Not enough energy to
bounce back in the air. Brakes semi-locked, pull the power, stopped in
400 feet.


When I got my first taste of short field landings, I was too fast and too
flat which left me floating beyond the target.

I finally turned to my CFI and said..."Should I just be trying to catch a
"three wire?""

"EUREEKA!!!"

I pictured what an F/A18 looks like on short final and saw myself trapping
aboard the "USS Coolidge Muni" and nailed the next three just past the
runway end lights.

Used the same mental imagery on my checkride and planted that F-172 right on
the second runway centerline stripe...right where the DPE wanted it!

Jay Beckman
KCHD
PP-ASEL
Still nowhere to go but up!


  #18  
Old November 17th 04, 07:31 AM
Hilton
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Andrew Sarangan wrote:
Every landing involves a stall.


Nope.


Besides, spins are aerobatic maneuvers and you are required to have
parachutes unless you are doing it as part of a certificate or rating.


Nope - you don't need to be "doing it as part of a certificate or rating".

Hilton


  #19  
Old November 17th 04, 08:15 AM
Morgans
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Besides, spins are aerobatic maneuvers and you are required to have
parachutes unless you are doing it as part of a certificate or rating.


Nope - you don't need to be "doing it as part of a certificate or rating".

Hilton

Cites please?
--
Jim in NC


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  #20  
Old November 17th 04, 08:15 AM
Peter Duniho
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"Andrew Sarangan" wrote in message
7...

I have to respectfully disagree. A short field landing is where you
plonk the airplane on the runway while it still has some flying speed.


Sorry...weren't you the guy who just today posted "every landing involves a
stall"?

Usenet's going to be just that much less fun if you picking apart your *own*
posts.

Anyway, to each their own regarding technique. However, with a nice steep
approach and low airspeed, you can have both minimum flying speed (or even a
stall), and still have a rapid flare with no float. It's all about keeping
your approach speed sufficiently slow.

Yes, if you fly your approach at 1.3 Vs0, a full stall landing will mean a
nice long float. But that's not the correct airspeed for a short field
landing.

Anyway, I take it you now agree with what was my main point: that it's NOT
true that "every landing involves a stall". Thank you for your cooperation.


Pete


 




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