What was controller implying??

Yesterday I was on an IFR flight about 50 miles from destination. The
area was getting covered with TS, including my alternate 20 miles futher
west. Home base was 150 mi to the east. I realized I might have to
reverse course to escape, but did not have enough fuel to get home for sure.

So, the last chance to land before the TS got heavy was coming close.
When about 15 miles from this new "alternate" I told controller I wanted
to change destination. I expect a vector to the final, and I was needing
to start descent. Nothing happened. Finally when maybe 5 miles out, and
way to close to get a vector, controller quizzed me with "I need to know
what is the reason for the change in destination??"

From the tone of voice I could tell I caused him a problem. The traffic
was not heavy. I have never had anyone question a change like that. When
over the airport VMC opened up briefly, I cancelled and landed.
Wondering what might have caused the query.

Bill J wrote:
Yesterday I was on an IFR flight about 50 miles from destination. The
area was getting covered with TS, including my alternate 20 miles futher
west. Home base was 150 mi to the east. I realized I might have to
reverse course to escape, but did not have enough fuel to get home for sure.

So, the last chance to land before the TS got heavy was coming close.
When about 15 miles from this new "alternate" I told controller I wanted
to change destination.

Good move. The combination of convective activity, deteriorating
weather, and an unsure fuel situation is not fun. But you knew that :-)

I expect a vector to the final, and I was needing
to start descent. Nothing happened. Finally when maybe 5 miles out, and
way to close to get a vector, controller quizzed me with "I need to know
what is the reason for the change in destination??

It's bizarre that he should even ask this, but don't let it get to you.
The only thing I can think of is he suspects you're in some kind of
trouble and is trying to figure out if he should handle you as an
emergency. Tell him something that'll make him happy, and get on with
flying the airplane. Tell him you're diverting due to weather. Declare
minimum fuel if you think it'll make a difference. If he's not taking
the hint, just tell him straight out what you need, "Request clearance
to Podunk Municipal and vectors to the ILS". If he's still not taking
the hint, request immediate clearance.

From the tone of voice I could tell I caused him a problem.

OK, so you caused him a problem. Bummer. He can go home after his
shift and bitch at his wife about the bad day he had at the office. Not
your problem. Your problem is to get some more fuel, and unless you're
flying something a lot fancier than most of us, that means landing at an
airport.

"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...

It's bizarre that he should even ask this, but don't let it get to you.
The only thing I can think of is he suspects you're in some kind of
trouble and is trying to figure out if he should handle you as an
emergency. Tell him something that'll make him happy, and get on with
flying the airplane. Tell him you're diverting due to weather. Declare
minimum fuel if you think it'll make a difference. If he's not taking
the hint, just tell him straight out what you need, "Request clearance
to Podunk Municipal and vectors to the ILS". If he's still not taking
the hint, request immediate clearance.


I wouldn't tell him anything that isn't true. A few years ago a light twin
being vectored for sequencing at ORD declared minimum fuel and was given
priority handling, several aircraft were vectored out of his way. He was on
the ground briefly and departed again. Some supervisor type thought it a
little too briefly and phoned the FBO to see if he bought fuel. He hadn't.
As I recall, he said he declared minimum fuel because if he didn't land at
ORD soon he wouldn't be able to reach his next destination without buying
fuel. I don't know how it all shook out but he definitely abused the
system.

In article . net,
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...

It's bizarre that he should even ask this, but don't let it get to you.
The only thing I can think of is he suspects you're in some kind of
trouble and is trying to figure out if he should handle you as an
emergency. Tell him something that'll make him happy, and get on with
flying the airplane. Tell him you're diverting due to weather. Declare
minimum fuel if you think it'll make a difference. If he's not taking
the hint, just tell him straight out what you need, "Request clearance
to Podunk Municipal and vectors to the ILS". If he's still not taking
the hint, request immediate clearance.


I wouldn't tell him anything that isn't true.

Neither would I, but the OP said "I realized I might have to reverse
course to escape, but did not have enough fuel to get home for sure."

It may not quite fit the AIM definition of "Minimum Fuel", but anytime
you can say "escape" and "not have enough fuel" in the same sentence,
that sounds close enough to me.

Bill J wrote:
Yesterday I was on an IFR flight about 50 miles from destination. The
area was getting covered with TS, including my alternate 20 miles futher
west. Home base was 150 mi to the east. I realized I might have to
reverse course to escape, but did not have enough fuel to get home for
sure.

So, the last chance to land before the TS got heavy was coming close.
When about 15 miles from this new "alternate" I told controller I wanted
to change destination. I expect a vector to the final, and I was needing
to start descent. Nothing happened. Finally when maybe 5 miles out, and
way to close to get a vector, controller quizzed me with "I need to know
what is the reason for the change in destination??"

And you answer "Because."




From the tone of voice I could tell I caused him a problem.

No problem, just unexpected.

Never parse a controller's transmissions in an attempt to analyze his or her
intentions. I don't know how you phrased your transmission regarding the
change in destination, but my guess is that it did not contain enough
information. Controllers have to abide by phraseology in the Air Traffic
Control Handbook...pilots have no similar guidance. Say what you have to say
and say it clearly, and I'll bet this never happens again.

Bob Gardner

"Bill J" wrote in message
...
Yesterday I was on an IFR flight about 50 miles from destination. The
area was getting covered with TS, including my alternate 20 miles futher
west. Home base was 150 mi to the east. I realized I might have to
reverse course to escape, but did not have enough fuel to get home for
sure.

So, the last chance to land before the TS got heavy was coming close.
When about 15 miles from this new "alternate" I told controller I wanted
to change destination. I expect a vector to the final, and I was needing
to start descent. Nothing happened. Finally when maybe 5 miles out, and
way to close to get a vector, controller quizzed me with "I need to know
what is the reason for the change in destination??"

From the tone of voice I could tell I caused him a problem. The traffic
was not heavy. I have never had anyone question a change like that. When
over the airport VMC opened up briefly, I cancelled and landed.
Wondering what might have caused the query.

Bob Gardner wrote:
Never parse a controller's transmissions in an attempt to analyze his or her
intentions.

Thank you, Bob. If this newsgroup had a FAQ, this would be on it.

Dave

Bob Gardner wrote:

Never parse a controller's transmissions in an attempt to analyze his or her
intentions. I don't know how you phrased your transmission regarding the
change in destination, but my guess is that it did not contain enough
information. Controllers have to abide by phraseology in the Air Traffic
Control Handbook...pilots have no similar guidance. Say what you have to say
and say it clearly, and I'll bet this never happens again.

Good point. Typically, when I ask for a deviation I include the reason
in the transmission. It takes very little time to say "request vectors
to Podunk Municipal due to weather along route." In the case stated
here, I'd have thought the controller would have guessed the reason, but
maybe he wasn't aware of the weather ahead.

I was flying from ILM to ELM a few years ago. There was a squall line
moving across Virginia and just abeam Richmond it started getting very
dark ahead and the Strikefinder was lighting up like a Christmas tree.
I was about ready to call the controller when he came on and said I had
a line of severe thunderstorms ahead that was causing airline traffic to
divert and inquired as to my intentions. I asked him where the airline
guys were diverting. He said Richmond. I said "I'll take it." He then
gave me a vector to get me headed the right direction. Nothing nicer
than an on the ball controller when things start to turn sour.

It was almost as if he was reading my mind when he called me just as I
was about to key the mic.

Matt

Matt Whiting wrote:
I asked him where the airline guys were diverting. He said Richmond.
I said "I'll take it."

I don't mean to second guess your decision, but it occurs to me that
going where the airline guys are going may not always be the best pick.
They're looking for an ILS leading to 6000 feet of concrete, and
possibly other criteria driven by business and/or opspec issues. A spam
can may find a 2500 foot runway that's 30 miles closer and still VFR a
better alternative.

Roy Smith wrote:

Matt Whiting wrote:

I asked him where the airline guys were diverting. He said Richmond.
I said "I'll take it."


I don't mean to second guess your decision, but it occurs to me that
going where the airline guys are going may not always be the best pick.
They're looking for an ILS leading to 6000 feet of concrete, and
possibly other criteria driven by business and/or opspec issues. A spam
can may find a 2500 foot runway that's 30 miles closer and still VFR a
better alternative.

Well, I knew roughly where I was and Richmond wasn't far away (I think
less than 30 miles, but I'd have to run a flight plan to know for sure)
and it was almost directly opposite the incoming storms. Also, I wanted
a restaurant for me and my colleagues to eat in while waiting out the
storm as it was approaching supper time. There might have been a
slightly closer airport, but I was in in solid IMC at the time, it was
getting dark fast and the Strikefinder was talking to me. A decent
sized airport with large runways and an ILS was rather appealing all
things considered!

We had the airplane tied down and just got inside when the rain began.
We got to the restaurant before the hail started. I was afraid of
damage to the airplane, but fortunately it came through fine. After two
hours in the reasonably nice restaurant at Richmond, we completed an
uneventful night flight back to ELM.

We talked earlier about delegating tasks to ATC in certain situations.
For me this was an obvious one. ATC had a bigger picture view than I
did of where the nasty weather was and where it wasn't. It was obvious
that this line of storms was forming up much faster and more intensely
than the forecast I'd received a couple hours earlier before departing
Wilmington. I was in IMC and it was getting dark fast ahead. This is a
case where it seemed to me prudent to delegate a little bit to ATC.
Also, I took advantage of CRM! The CRM of the airliners who had two
pilots to figure out where best to divert! :-)

The diversion to Richmond got me headed away from the storm, got me into
a well equipped airport, and let me watch the excitement from the safety
of a decent restaurant over a steak dinner courtesy of my expense
account! The storm was magnificent to watch. It doesn't get any better
than that!


Matt