NOTAM

Martin X. Moleski, SJ opined

On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 08:49:12 -0700, "C J Campbell"
wrote:

"Ash Wyllie" wrote in message
...

I wonder how many modelers even know that NOTAMS even exist?

What are they going to do: take your model airplane license away?

They could close a lot of our flying fields, I imagine.

I fly in my backyard. So do lots of people, and do they know that they are not
allowed to fly?


-ash
Cthulhu for President!
Why vote for a lesser evil?

Steven P. McNicoll opined

"Martin X. Moleski, SJ" wrote in message
.. .

"This may not seem significant, but it could become so. The FAA
doesn't give the impression that it wants to regulate model airplanes,
but it does have responsibility for all of the navigable airspace in
the United States, and we fly in that airspace.


Do you? Are model airplanes generally flown above 500' AGL?

2 meter and larger gliders can easily go over 500'. Control distances are
miles, if you can see it, you can control it.


-ash
Cthulhu for President!
Why vote for a lesser evil?

"David Herman" wrote in message
news:1093630607.592832@yasure...
"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

"Ash Wyllie" wrote in message
...
--

I wonder how many modelers even know that NOTAMS even exist?


What are they going to do: take your model airplane license away?

Well, they might just shoot you.


Redmond, WA (AP) -- Model Airplane Enthusiast Shot by Secret Service

Model airplane enthusiast David Adams was shot and killed by Secret Service
agents today as hundreds of young soccer players and their parents looked on
in horror. The Marymoor model airplane field was supposed to be closed
during Presidential candidate John Kerry's visit to Microsoft, but no
notices were posted. Agents claimed that they had attempted to shout
warnings to Adams, who had lost his hearing when a hand grenade exploded
near him while he was stationed with the Marines in Afghanistan. Agents for
the Secret Service accused Adams of being a potential terrorist who might
use his model plane in an attack.

The FAA had issued notices to pilots that there was to be no model airplane
activity at the park, but local RC modelers claimed that they had never
received them. Adams is survived by his wife and two small children. The
Kerry campaign expressed regret at the incident and claimed that critics of
the shooting had links to the Bush campaign. Kerry himself noted that Adams
was a contributor to the Bush campaign.

------------------------------------------

Nope. Don't see it happening. Presidential candidates have just too tough a
time getting elected if their bodyguards go around shooting people at
random.

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

"David Herman" wrote in message
news:1093630607.592832@yasure...
"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

"Ash Wyllie" wrote in message
...
--

I wonder how many modelers even know that NOTAMS even exist?


What are they going to do: take your model airplane license away?

Well, they might just shoot you.


Redmond, WA (AP) -- Model Airplane Enthusiast Shot by Secret Service

Model airplane enthusiast David Adams was shot and killed by Secret
Service
agents today as hundreds of young soccer players and their parents looked
on
in horror. The Marymoor model airplane field was supposed to be closed
during Presidential candidate John Kerry's visit to Microsoft, but no
notices were posted. Agents claimed that they had attempted to shout
warnings to Adams, who had lost his hearing when a hand grenade exploded
near him while he was stationed with the Marines in Afghanistan. Agents
for
the Secret Service accused Adams of being a potential terrorist who might
use his model plane in an attack.

The FAA had issued notices to pilots that there was to be no model
airplane
activity at the park, but local RC modelers claimed that they had never
received them. Adams is survived by his wife and two small children. The
Kerry campaign expressed regret at the incident and claimed that critics
of
the shooting had links to the Bush campaign. Kerry himself noted that
Adams
was a contributor to the Bush campaign.

------------------------------------------

Nope. Don't see it happening. Presidential candidates have just too tough
a
time getting elected if their bodyguards go around shooting people at
random.

The scenario certainly sounds absurd. But it's no more absurd than having
F-16s shoot down some geezer in his Aeronca who fails to check for NOTAMs
and stumbles into some rolling string of pop-up TFRs over a Bush-Cheney
campaign bus trip. I think it's not too far fetched to expect that if the
current insanity continues, it may just be a matter of time before something
like that actually does occur. Frankly I think we've been lucky that some
tragedy like this hasn't happened yet (we came REAL close with the Governor
of Kentucky).

Of course in your scenario you've got things turned around with regard to
the incumbent./challenger: the TFRs - and, presumably, the TRRs (Temporary
Rocketry Restrictions) - go up around Bush & Cheney, not Kerry or Edwards
(at least not yet....knock on wood).

They'll take away my Estes Big Bertha when they pry it out of my cold, dead
fingers.....


--
David Herman
N6170T 1965 Cessna 150E
Boeing Field (BFI), Seattle, WA
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Visit the Pacific Northwest Flying Forum:
http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/pnwflying

On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 20:05:03 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:

"Martin X. Moleski, SJ" wrote in message
.. .

Depends on the modeler and the model.

I would say that on most flights I get above 500' AGL at least
some of the time.

How do you know its altitude?

I do a little trigonometry based on the crick in my neck and
an estimate of the distance the plane is from me by how
small it looks. )

Here's some of my aerial photography. I'm pretty sure I got
well over 500' for some of the photos:
http://moleski.net/rc/respark.htm

You might notice that the NOTAM in question assumes that
the FAA can ban model flights altogether, regardless of the
altitude. It may be overreaching, but I don't have the money
to take them to court to prove that it is.

The US government doesn't have Constitutional authority for most of its
activities.

If the FAA tells me not to fly, I'm gonna not fly. I understand
that others made of sterner stuff might wanna see whether
the courts will back them in their interpretation of civil
liberties.

Marty

On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 12:24:19 -0700, "David Herman"
wrote:

A dumb question: other than eyeballing and estimating, how exactly does
someone controlling a RC model know its altitude?

Maynard Hill used radar, I believe, to verify his altitude record:

Sub-class F3A (Airplane, piston motor)

N°143:

Gain in altitude : 8205 m=26,919 feet

Date of flight: 06/09/1970
Pilot: Maynard L. HILL (USA)
Course/place: Dahlgren, VA (USA)

Folks have been denied permission to attempt to break his
record in the U.S.:

http://www.noskylimit.50megs.com/

It was crazy of them to try to do in in Jacksonville. The letter
of denial says that they should try out west. They don't seem
to understand that friendly advice.

Some folks use watches that have peak altitude altimeters
built in. I haven't tried that yet. I've gone high enough to scare
myself a few times. I'm sure others with better eyesight have
gone higher than I have.

Marty

On 27 Aug 2004 17:46:58 -0500, "Ash Wyllie" wrote:

...I fly in my backyard. So do lots of people, and do they know that they are not
allowed to fly?

I doubt there are many backyards like that in the NYC area. )

"Ignorance of the law is no excuse" (that I know of). Folks in the
Academy of Model Aeronautics are doing what they can to get
the word out, but lots of RC pilots are not AMA members.
There is no obligation to be a member in order to fly on private
property or wherever permission is granted by the owner(s).

Marty

C J Campbell opined

"David Herman" wrote in message
news:1093630607.592832@yasure...
"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

"Ash Wyllie" wrote in message
...
--

I wonder how many modelers even know that NOTAMS even exist?


What are they going to do: take your model airplane license away?

Well, they might just shoot you.


Redmond, WA (AP) -- Model Airplane Enthusiast Shot by Secret Service

Model airplane enthusiast David Adams was shot and killed by Secret Service
agents today as hundreds of young soccer players and their parents looked on
in horror. The Marymoor model airplane field was supposed to be closed
during Presidential candidate John Kerry's visit to Microsoft, but no
notices were posted. Agents claimed that they had attempted to shout
warnings to Adams, who had lost his hearing when a hand grenade exploded
near him while he was stationed with the Marines in Afghanistan. Agents for
the Secret Service accused Adams of being a potential terrorist who might
use his model plane in an attack.

The FAA had issued notices to pilots that there was to be no model airplane
activity at the park, but local RC modelers claimed that they had never
received them. Adams is survived by his wife and two small children. The
Kerry campaign expressed regret at the incident and claimed that critics of
the shooting had links to the Bush campaign. Kerry himself noted that Adams
was a contributor to the Bush campaign.

------------------------------------------

Nope. Don't see it happening. Presidential candidates have just too tough a
time getting elected if their bodyguards go around shooting people at
random.

It's going to be a close election. If the SS shoots enough of the right people
the outcaom could be changed.



-ash
Cthulhu for President!
Why vote for a lesser evil?

Ash Wyllie wrote:

I saw this in another forum.

prohibition of "model aircraft operations, model rocketry, remotely operated
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
aircraft, unmanned aerial vehicles." EAA advises pilots to check the latest
^^^^^^^^

I wonder how many modelers even know that NOTAMS even exist?

I wonder if some of the HSA people saw posts similar to the model B-52 posts that
were going around in this group recently and took some of the humorous comments
seriously.

George Patterson
If you want to know God's opinion of money, just look at the people
he gives it to.

"Martin X. Moleski, SJ" wrote:

They could close a lot of our flying fields, I imagine.

I used to fly from a baseball diamond. They're gonna close that?

George Patterson
If you want to know God's opinion of money, just look at the people
he gives it to.