Navy enlistment questions

22yrs in the Navy. Go for it.You will enjoy it. Try the SeaBees.



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"BlackBeard" wrote in message
om...
"Doug \"Woody\" and Erin Beal" wrote in message
...

Look, your best bet is NOT to enlist. Get your citizenship first and
either
jump into the Navy or Air Force as an officer OR go to someplace like
Eglin
AFB, NAS Pax River, MD, or NAWS China Lake, CA and get a challenging
technical job as a civilian engineer (civil servant). The pay will be
decent, and the satisfaction is great because you'll be working with
cutting
edge weapons systems--hands on--an engineer's dream.

The best advice so far, but....

[ SNIP ]
Sorry, the story is so vague and downright strange I would pass on
it if I was in a hiring position. I apologize in advance to the
author, but my initial impression of the post was that it was bait for
an upcoming troll or a fabrication from a very young (naive) person
creating a scenario for whatever reason.
[ SNIP ]

I actually thought so too, but then I figured it was whacked enough to be
true, because I've known people who did the tour all the way through postdoc
in sciences and engineering, and then they realized that they didn't like at
all the career path they had chosen.

I'd just hire on the basis of demonstrated electronics knowledge if that's
what trips his trigger.

AHS

"Atcrossroad" wrote in message
om...
It's quite loser's story but, hell, I'll not fall lower by telling it.

snip-----snip-----snip-----snip-----snip-----snip-----snip-----

A guy I used to see fishing on the beach at Cape Hatteras NC had an advanced
degree in engineering (masters I believe) and was in the Coast Guard.He had
a similar story, school, several jobs he didn't like. He joined the Coast
Guard at about 30 years of age I believe. He was in the Aviation Maintenance
field. The last I heard of him he was a Chief Warrant Officer. The Coast
Guard is small enough that the senior enlisted are often given small
commands, etc. You could be a big fish there, even if it is a small pond.

I put my 22½ years in the Marines and don't regret it. But the only other
service I would consider would be the Coast Guard.

(BlackBeard) wrote in message . com...
"Doug \"Woody\" and Erin Beal" wrote in message ...
Look, your best bet is NOT to enlist. Get your citizenship first and either
jump into the Navy or Air Force as an officer OR go to someplace like Eglin
AFB, NAS Pax River, MD, or NAWS China Lake, CA and get a challenging
technical job as a civilian engineer (civil servant). The pay will be
decent, and the satisfaction is great because you'll be working with cutting
edge weapons systems--hands on--an engineer's dream.

The best advice so far, but....

With the exception that his story was just vague enough to raise
flags. PhD in what? He stated electronics was just a hobby and he
doesn't have the degree in it. So is he an ME? AE? Choo-Choo
engineer? Sanitation Engineer?

Well, story is indeed strange. That's what one gets for getting into a
2nd tier schools. I have a Ph.D. in systems engineering. Catch, I have
only a vague clue about systems engineering. All my research was in
materials science/metallurgy/manufacturing. Engineering school awarded
systems engineering Ph.D.s to everybody enrolled in its Ph.D. programs
even though school of engineering had 3 quite different departments
(Mechanical engineering (my department), electrical systems, computer
science). After I've left, school started a Ph.D. program in
mechanical engineering which would suit my research/thesis much
better. You see, I have a Ph.D. in systems engineering but all my
experience is in materials science/metallurgy. When I apply for mat
science jobs, my sys eng. degree raises flags. I have a B.S. in
metallurgical engineering, not really a high demand/growth field too.
Preemptive remark, school/my Ph.D. program were ABET accredited.

Second tier program? How so? We have lots of S&E's from all sorts
of schools and that is rarely the most important criteria for getting
a decent job if you are competent in your field.

There is a significant Ph.D. glut in the labor market. Ph.D. from a
good school is not an advantage (in most of the cases) in the real
world (outside of narrow research fields). Ph.D. from a second tier is
simply a burden on one's neck. I think I am quite competent in my
field. However, my research was not really industry oriented. And no
matter what you say about competence, resume screeners are looking not
for competent folks but for those whose resume matches job description
the most (I've exhausted all my network connections while looking for
an engineering spot). As I've told, I am looking for engineering
position not for a research position. Well, a Ph.D. applying for
entry/near entry engineering positions would raise your flags too (
Life's so "sweet" in the Ph.D. world. Why would anyone want to
switch?). In the "real world", there are many misconceptions about
Ph.D.s, which really hurt those trying to jump the research boat.

Obviously he can't
be talking about only looking for the best jobs out there or I
wouldn't think enlistment in the Mil would fit any of his desires...
Pay? Job challenge? Environment? Opportunity?

Well, nobody could scare a postdoc with ****ty pay, long hours, and so
on. I am looking just for an engineering job (pay, etc. is not an
issue) to stick my leg into an engineering field. I know engineering
is not sugar, I know I will not last long (due to the age
discrimination), but I just like to do something I like and good at (I
can claim that, I've designed/built several moderately complicated
experimental devices.)

Sorry, the story is so vague and downright strange I would pass on
it if I was in a hiring position. I apologize in advance to the
author, but my initial impression of the post was that it was bait for
an upcoming troll or a fabrication from a very young (naive) person
creating a scenario for whatever reason.

I wish you were correct and I would be just a young naive troll.

I've worked with far too many PhD's and advanced degree Engineers to
believe he can't get a job in his 'field' (yet undefined). It's
certainly plausible he can't find the job he _wants_, but that's
something different. Enlisting in the Navy would be as far from a
rational solution as digging a hole and sitting in it because you
issed your bus. Bizarre.

Well, Ideally I would want a job in design of materials
testing/laboratory.... equipment or design of process control systems.
That's why adding a formal electronics credentials would be a plus. I
could do some "menial"/odd jobs in the civil life while getting those
credentials or I could do something electronics related in navy while
getting them. Postdocing is way too life/time demanding to do anything
else than slaving. I had quite a few EE classes, it should not take
that long. Another thing is that getting EE credentials will leave a
gigantic gap in my resume=good bye everything, good morning Wal-Mart.
I'm trapped. I think you have some misconceptions, a Ph.D. is rarely a
plus when one wants an engineering job in mat. sci./metallurgy. Maybe
in some other fields, but in mat. sci. Ph.D.s are doomed to be lab or
paper writing rats. I'd rather be on shop's floor.

yes, I can find another postdoc in not time at all. Bad side, I hate
it and it's a way nowhere. I would hate being an assistant professor
even more.


I know the China Lake folks are usually looking for engineers because they
can't find enough people who want to live there.

--Woody

Yep, they just can't stand all the green fields and the huge lake
and perfect weather. Fishing, sailing, skiiing et al. on the lake,
that's the pamphlet I saw ...




BB

(Atcrossroad) wrote in message om...
(BlackBeard) wrote in message . com...
"Doug \"Woody\" and Erin Beal" wrote in message ...
Look, your best bet is NOT to enlist. Get your citizenship first and either
jump into the Navy or Air Force as an officer OR go to someplace like Eglin
AFB, NAS Pax River, MD, or NAWS China Lake, CA and get a challenging
technical job as a civilian engineer (civil servant). The pay will be
decent, and the satisfaction is great because you'll be working with cutting
edge weapons systems--hands on--an engineer's dream.

The best advice so far, but....

With the exception that his story was just vague enough to raise
flags. PhD in what? He stated electronics was just a hobby and he
doesn't have the degree in it. So is he an ME? AE? Choo-Choo
engineer? Sanitation Engineer?

Well, story is indeed strange. That's what one gets for getting into a
2nd tier schools. I have a Ph.D. in systems engineering. Catch, I have
only a vague clue about systems engineering.

That's only because systems engineers
don't even have a clue what systems
engineers is, other than it's it's a
job title engineering schools made up,
to make Philosophers feel like they're
actually doing engineering work.
Because they are systematic.

All my research was in
materials science/metallurgy/manufacturing. Engineering school awarded
systems engineering Ph.D.s to everybody enrolled in its Ph.D. programs
even though school of engineering had 3 quite different departments
(Mechanical engineering (my department), electrical systems, computer
science). After I've left, school started a Ph.D. program in
mechanical engineering which would suit my research/thesis much
better. You see, I have a Ph.D. in systems engineering but all my
experience is in materials science/metallurgy. When I apply for mat
science jobs, my sys eng. degree raises flags. I have a B.S. in
metallurgical engineering, not really a high demand/growth field too.
Preemptive remark, school/my Ph.D. program were ABET accredited.

Second tier program? How so? We have lots of S&E's from all sorts
of schools and that is rarely the most important criteria for getting
a decent job if you are competent in your field.

There is a significant Ph.D. glut in the labor market. Ph.D. from a
good school is not an advantage (in most of the cases) in the real
world (outside of narrow research fields). Ph.D. from a second tier is
simply a burden on one's neck. I think I am quite competent in my
field. However, my research was not really industry oriented. And no
matter what you say about competence, resume screeners are looking not
for competent folks but for those whose resume matches job description
the most (I've exhausted all my network connections while looking for
an engineering spot). As I've told, I am looking for engineering
position not for a research position. Well, a Ph.D. applying for
entry/near entry engineering positions would raise your flags too (
Life's so "sweet" in the Ph.D. world. Why would anyone want to
switch?). In the "real world", there are many misconceptions about
Ph.D.s, which really hurt those trying to jump the research boat.

A phd is not even an advantage in mathematics,
so it's impossible that it could be an advantage in
engineering.





Obviously he can't
be talking about only looking for the best jobs out there or I
wouldn't think enlistment in the Mil would fit any of his desires...
Pay? Job challenge? Environment? Opportunity?

Well, nobody could scare a postdoc with ****ty pay, long hours, and so
on. I am looking just for an engineering job (pay, etc. is not an
issue) to stick my leg into an engineering field. I know engineering
is not sugar, I know I will not last long (due to the age
discrimination), but I just like to do something I like and good at (I
can claim that, I've designed/built several moderately complicated
experimental devices.)

Sorry, the story is so vague and downright strange I would pass on
it if I was in a hiring position. I apologize in advance to the
author, but my initial impression of the post was that it was bait for
an upcoming troll or a fabrication from a very young (naive) person
creating a scenario for whatever reason.

I wish you were correct and I would be just a young naive troll.

I've worked with far too many PhD's and advanced degree Engineers to
believe he can't get a job in his 'field' (yet undefined). It's
certainly plausible he can't find the job he _wants_, but that's
something different. Enlisting in the Navy would be as far from a
rational solution as digging a hole and sitting in it because you
issed your bus. Bizarre.

Well, Ideally I would want a job in design of materials
testing/laboratory.... equipment or design of process control systems.
That's why adding a formal electronics credentials would be a plus. I
could do some "menial"/odd jobs in the civil life while getting those
credentials or I could do something electronics related in navy while
getting them. Postdocing is way too life/time demanding to do anything
else than slaving. I had quite a few EE classes, it should not take
that long. Another thing is that getting EE credentials will leave a
gigantic gap in my resume=good bye everything, good morning Wal-Mart.
I'm trapped. I think you have some misconceptions, a Ph.D. is rarely a
plus when one wants an engineering job in mat. sci./metallurgy. Maybe
in some other fields, but in mat. sci. Ph.D.s are doomed to be lab or
paper writing rats. I'd rather be on shop's floor.

But, that's because Engineers have to constantly
tell mat.sci people that metallurgy is not a science.

It's what physicists are doomed to do with resumes.

"Atcrossroad" wrote in message
om...
It's quite loser's story but, hell, I'll not fall lower by telling it.


I've made a big mistake in my life, namely, I've got a Ph.D. in
engineering from a second tier graduate program. Since graduation, I
had a string of sh*t pay, no benefits, long hours, dead-end postdocs
("permanently" temporary research slave jobs for 50% of the fresh (and
not so fresh) Ph.D.s who cannot find a real job). Well, me (and many,
many others) had/have no other options. During postdocing (brain
numbing, overall pointless, BS peddling to cheat a buck from Uncle Sam
kind of a job), I have developed a strong aversion to the (academic)
research trade. I cannot stand it (even in an exchange for a
theoretical lofty paycheck). Had I liked it, I would have roughed
through everything, but...research is for the single-minded zombies
with talents of a used car salesman. And it's not me.
I really like engineering, but with my degree and experience, entry
level engineering jobs are reliably out of my reach. I am
overqualified for entry-level jobs (too old also), and I am
unqualified for experience-only jobs. 1 year of unsuccessful applying
for all kinds of engineering jobs is enough to realize that there is
nothing for me in the "real world". Do not get me wrong, I have good
GPAs (3.9 both in undergrad and grad schools), I have 10 or so
publications in the premiere science journals, I have a good research
resume and good recommendations. But all that is not enough to land an
engineering job these days.

What to do?

I do not have a formal degree in EE, but I do like electronics and I
do know a lot about it. It's my true passion. I'd like to pursue a
career in electronics (desirably engineering, but technician jobs are
OK too - more difficult to offshore). It happens that I like sea, I
like (to learn about, at least) navy, ships, ship's weaponry, naval
history. I would like to try something different, new and manly like a
military service. Clock is ticking. In 4 years (I'm 30 y.o. now), I'll
not have a military option. So, I am considering enlisting to navy.
Local recruiters are not making their quotas, I was forgiven my 10
extra pounds. I think I'll be able to pass physical. I have the right
attitude to get through a boot camp too. Also, I am a permanent
resident i.e. an officer school is not an option (I am not sure if I
would be allowed to enter an officer school in such a ripe age,
anyway).

My questions:

1) Is 30 y.o. is too old to be a sailor? I know navy is OK with 30y.o.
sailors, but..will I look like a freak among early 20th crowd?
2) Have you ever seen a Ph.D. enlisting as a sailor? Do you think it
will be better for me not to mention my Ph.D. at all: a) to avoid
future pecking along the line "let's see how smart you really are" b)
not to be an unofficial poster child for a loser. How thoroughly
background check is done? Will such an omission be counted against me
if discovered?
3) What is the most challenging electronics field in navy? What is its
rate? Is it open for non citizens (Hopefully, I'll be a citizen in 2
years or so)? Ideally, I would like something involving little bit of
design (I hope to pass PE exam in the future, and I need a design
experience to be registered as a professional engineer).
4) Assuming that I will like the service, will be good at it, will get
my citizenship and will decide to become an officer: a) what is max
age for applicants to an officer school? b) will I be required to
fulfill my enlistment obligations prior to applying to a school?
5) Are those with earned college degrees qualified for the Navy
college funds?
6) In army, enlisted college graduates fresh out of a boot camp get
higher rank than HS graduates do. Does anything like that exist in
navy?

Thanks to anyone who'll bother to reply.

I don't want to rain on your parade, but it sounds like about the only thing
you are really qualified for is to do what most of the others with a PhD in
engineering do. Get out of the field (like I did) and do something else.
Either that, start your own business, or go academic.

I never really worked directly in the engineering field, the BS was to keep
my dad happy and off my back, but my main goal was to get into NAVCAD. The
advance engineering degree's I got later were just something to do while I
spent a few years in the Durham NC VA hospital which is next to Duke. Heck I
have met more people that work in something other than what they got their
degree in than those that do.

Red

Atcrossroad wrote:
(BlackBeard)...

"Doug \"Woody\" and Erin Beal"...

Look, your best bet is NOT to enlist. Get your citizenship first and either
jump into the Navy or Air Force as an officer OR go to someplace like Eglin
AFB, NAS Pax River, MD, or NAWS China Lake, CA and get a challenging
technical job as a civilian engineer (civil servant). The pay will be
decent, and the satisfaction is great because you'll be working with cutting
edge weapons systems--hands on--an engineer's dream.

The best advice so far, but....

With the exception that his story was just vague enough to raise
flags. PhD in what? He stated electronics was just a hobby and he
doesn't have the degree in it. So is he an ME? AE? Choo-Choo
engineer? Sanitation Engineer?


2nd tier schools...Ph.D. in systems engineering...only a vague clue about systems engineering...all my
experience is in materials science/metallurgy...degree raises flags. I have a B.S. in
metallurgical engineering, not really a high demand/growth field too.

There is a significant Ph.D. glut in the labor market. Ph.D. from a
good school is not an advantage (in most of the cases) in the real
world (outside of narrow research fields). Ph.D. from a second tier is
simply a burden on one's neck.

Waaa, waaa, waaaa, $%^&-ing waaa.

Dude, get over your whining. Life sucks, it's tough out there. Saying
having a PhD is somehow a burden and holds you back is a steaming load
of horse manure. If it holds you back, it's because you let it. Do you
think resumes have the slightest impact in getting a job? HA! They are
screening forms, allowing people to throw you into a circular file.

No wonder you're underemployed. you spend all your effort making
excuses. Join the Navy, so you can be further disappointed with life's
slings and arrows, and how the system hasn't recognized and taken
advantage of your now overeducated abilities.

Buying an education is like buying a box of tools. Yours are sitting on
the shelf unused. That's your fault. Go buy a falling apart house and
use your engineering skills to restore it and sell it for a profit. Take
broken radios and fix them. Fix TVs. Want to work on electronics? Just
do it! Do great at it, and people will come knocking on your door,
instead of you knocking on theirs. Talent is always rewarded. All you
have is potential.

Or do you really want a Dilbert job where someone hand feeds you?

Go out and buy a copy of "What Color is Your Parachute" by a Mr. Bolles.
Your local bookstore will have it. study it, complete it, follow it.
You'll get what you want that way.

John A. Stovall wrote:

"What Color is Your Parachute" is the most useless job search book
ever written. He would to better to spend the money it costs on a
coffee and networking in Starbucks.

You get the job you want by contacts and networks not a book.

Have you read the book? That's exactly what it has you do. And it helps
you figure out how to do it.

Duh.

"Red Rider" wrote in message
om...

[ SNIP ]
I never really worked directly in the engineering field, the BS was to
keep
my dad happy and off my back, but my main goal was to get into NAVCAD.
The
advance engineering degree's I got later were just something to do while I
spent a few years in the Durham NC VA hospital which is next to Duke. Heck
I
have met more people that work in something other than what they got their
degree in than those that do.

Probably a third to a half of the programmers I know actually got their
degrees in something other than CS. In some cases, things like English or
history. They frequently turn out to be better software developers than the
formally trained people. I know a nurse who abruptly changed careers in her
late '30's, and is now an ocean kayaking and rockclimbing guide. Not to
mention quite a few more who have made similar radical shifts.

Hell, at the age of thirty you still have all the options open to you. I
wouldn't enlist in the Navy, but if you're having problems establishing an
enjoyable career at that age you're doing something wrong.

AHS

What about the Merchant Marine? I'm not up and up on their requirements,
but it could be a good choice.

Damian