PowerFlarm and transponders while towing?

On Feb 21, 4:19*pm, "Dan Marotta" wrote:
But, but, but... *A glider on tow is not on a collision course with the tug.
So why is PowerFlar alerting on the glider trailing behind? *Why wouldn't it
alwo alert on a glider behind you in a thermal?

I'm still not convinced...

"Chris Nicholas" wrote in message

...
I suggest a second sticker on the vario.

My first sticker says “gear”. I stick it on the vario when launching.
If it still there when I come off tow and start thermalling etc., it
impedes my view of the vario and reminds me to raise the
undercarriage. When I have done the latter, I move the sticker to the
airbrake/spoiler handle. If it is still there when I approach for
landing, I have forgotten to lower the gear. When I do lower the gear,
I move the sticker back to the vario as I don’t need it for approach
and landing.

For the USA transponder/PowerFlarm, I would have a second sticker on
the vario saying transponder/PowerFlarm. If still there when looking
for lift, it would mean I forgot to switch them on after pulling off
tow.

Cheap, fairly foolproof, and the only time it let me down (or rather I
goofed) was when I forgot to put the sticker on the vario in the first
place, and ended up landing without lowering the gear.

Chris N.

To clarify, Bumper is only talking about the mode C alert, NOT flarm
alert. Mode C only alerts you of the nearest transponder equipped
aircraft (the glider in this case), not of a collision alert. Would
have been great if it was capable of displaying more than one threat,
than there wouldn't be an issue.

Ramy

As Ramy says. Also, if both have PowerFlarm and Transponder, the
glider PF will only show the tug transponder as the nearest and will
not alert to a possible approaching transponder.

As the combination is one entity in air law (I assume it is in the USA
as it is in the UK) it is logical to leave all unambiguous alerts to
the tug pilot. Once separated, the glider needs its own alerts, and
the tug will soon be away.

(Because I have separate PCAS and Flarm in my glider, and no
transponder, I don’t have the problem.)

Not that you can’t still have collisions – I know of at least one UK
fatal collision between a tug and the glider it had not long since
towed up. Be careful out there.

Chris N.

A possible solution would be to have the PF ignore a constant close-
in, almost same altitude threat (i.e.the glider) after a reasonable
period of time, say a couple of minutes. After staging, this would
have the tow plane PF start to ignore the glider's Mode-C either on
the take off roll or early in the climb. Additionally a software fix
might be tied in to the aircraft type and function only if the "tow
plane" option is menu selected.

I've contacted PowerFlarmUS re. this and some other suggestions and
they are responsive. I wasn't meaning to do an end run, but rather
wanted input from others to confirm if what I'm experiencing is indeed
a problem needing addressing. The seperate issue of tug and glider
transponders interfering with one another while on tow has no fix, I'm
aware of, other than leaving one transponder in standby for the
duration of the tow.

bumper

At SoaringNV's staff meeting yesterday, we discussed the PowerFlarm
and transponder issue. It was quickly decided that having the glider
transponder on STBY until release would not be workable due to the
fact we often have non-pilots sitting behind the main instrument
panel.

So, yesterday we tried having the tow plane squawk standby until tow
release, then switch to ALT. This works fine in terms of not having
the transponders interfere with each other . . . but does nothing to
resolve the PF beng in constant alarm due to the collision it thinks
might occur at any time between tug and glider.

But, this thread brought elicited a private response reminding me what
I already knew, and that is that the FARs require a transponder be on
at all times if its installed, except as directed by ATC etc. ATC will
almost always direct that all but the "lead" aircraft squawk standby
when formation flying, something that we do often while towing.

To try and resolve this I called Reno Approach who quickly shuffled me
off to NorCal Approach. Talked with a front line manager there who
advised us to do exactly what I suggested. i.e. Leave the tug
transponder squawking STBY until tow release and then don't forget to
switch to ALT. Now he did say that even if we left both on ALT, they
would probably still be able to see us*. But then added that the data
displayed would be confused and would potentially cause conflict
alarms as well.

*A secondary concern is that TCAS equipped aircraft will get good data
from our transponder/s.

bumper
zz
Minden

Not to sound like a smartass, but have you considered leaving the PowerFlarm
off until release? Is the collision potential so great over your usual tow
route/altitude that you don't feel safe without it?


"bumper" wrote in message
...
At SoaringNV's staff meeting yesterday, we discussed the PowerFlarm
and transponder issue. It was quickly decided that having the glider
transponder on STBY until release would not be workable due to the
fact we often have non-pilots sitting behind the main instrument
panel.

So, yesterday we tried having the tow plane squawk standby until tow
release, then switch to ALT. This works fine in terms of not having
the transponders interfere with each other . . . but does nothing to
resolve the PF beng in constant alarm due to the collision it thinks
might occur at any time between tug and glider.

But, this thread brought elicited a private response reminding me what
I already knew, and that is that the FARs require a transponder be on
at all times if its installed, except as directed by ATC etc. ATC will
almost always direct that all but the "lead" aircraft squawk standby
when formation flying, something that we do often while towing.

To try and resolve this I called Reno Approach who quickly shuffled me
off to NorCal Approach. Talked with a front line manager there who
advised us to do exactly what I suggested. i.e. Leave the tug
transponder squawking STBY until tow release and then don't forget to
switch to ALT. Now he did say that even if we left both on ALT, they
would probably still be able to see us*. But then added that the data
displayed would be confused and would potentially cause conflict
alarms as well.

*A secondary concern is that TCAS equipped aircraft will get good data
from our transponder/s.

bumper
zz
Minden

On Feb 23, 5:47*pm, "Dan Marotta" wrote:
Not to sound like a smartass, but have you considered leaving the PowerFlarm
off until release? *Is the collision potential so great over your usual tow
route/altitude that you don't feel safe without it?

I've seen quite a few incidents in which the glider pilot picked up
the collision threat before the tow pilot.
This sounds like a pretty straightforward issue for flarm to solve --
writing software to know "this is the towplane, you're on tow, ignore
it" doesn't sound like rocket science.
John Cochrane

Agreed, software is simple for those who know how. It's just getting all
the wishes implemented.

BTW, I was referring to the tow plane's flarm. The glider could warn the
tug of any conflicts, couldn't he? Then I remember the incident in Boulder
a few years back...


"John Cochrane" wrote in message
...
On Feb 23, 5:47 pm, "Dan Marotta" wrote:
Not to sound like a smartass, but have you considered leaving the
PowerFlarm
off until release? Is the collision potential so great over your usual tow
route/altitude that you don't feel safe without it?

I've seen quite a few incidents in which the glider pilot picked up
the collision threat before the tow pilot.
This sounds like a pretty straightforward issue for flarm to solve --
writing software to know "this is the towplane, you're on tow, ignore
it" doesn't sound like rocket science.
John Cochrane

On Feb 23, 3:47*pm, "Dan Marotta" wrote:
Not to sound like a smartass, but have you considered leaving the PowerFlarm
off until release? *Is the collision potential so great over your usual tow
route/altitude that you don't feel safe without it?


That's kind of like saying I know my street and neighborhood really
well, so I won't bother to fasten my seat belt until I get a few miles
down the road. It's not so much a matter of not feeling safe without
the PowerFlarm, but rather of being safer with it. Statistically, at
least for power planes, most mid-airs occur within a few miles of
airports, just like most car accidents occur within 5 miles of home.

bumper