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To Pawnee or not to Pawnee...that is the question...



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 16th 07, 12:16 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Travis Beach
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18
Default To Pawnee or not to Pawnee...that is the question...

Our club has a Piper Pawnee 235hp in excellent condition.
We just spent $35000 five years ago to completely overhaul
her...new fabric, new engine, anything that needed
to be replaced was...

Heres the rub...we are in the middle of a new two place
acquisition with the club making a decision about getting
a new two place intermediate performance. We were about
to drop the hammer when a very vocal minority raised
the issue of PAWNEE needing to be replaced citing extreme
maintenance cost (???) and inability to get parts.
He/She cited the local aero repair facility as his/her
source of information...Many of us just dont see this
as a problem. The replacement that was cited was a
Husky 180HP...I just dont see the reasoning of such
a switch...I surely would rather two a heavier two
place with a proven performer with 235 hp vs a 180...

What say you? Discuss...should we scrap the Pawnee
in favor of a Husky?

Beach



  #2  
Old October 16th 07, 01:41 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tim Taylor
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 751
Default To Pawnee or not to Pawnee...that is the question...

On Oct 15, 4:16 pm, Travis Beach
wrote:
Our club has a Piper Pawnee 235hp in excellent condition.
We just spent $35000 five years ago to completely overhaul
her...new fabric, new engine, anything that needed
to be replaced was...

Heres the rub...we are in the middle of a new two place
acquisition with the club making a decision about getting
a new two place intermediate performance. We were about
to drop the hammer when a very vocal minority raised
the issue of PAWNEE needing to be replaced citing extreme
maintenance cost (???) and inability to get parts.
He/She cited the local aero repair facility as his/her
source of information...Many of us just dont see this
as a problem. The replacement that was cited was a
Husky 180HP...I just dont see the reasoning of such
a switch...I surely would rather two a heavier two
place with a proven performer with 235 hp vs a 180...

What say you? Discuss...should we scrap the Pawnee
in favor of a Husky?

Beach


hmmm, lets see; cost of interest or lost income from the cash on a
120K Husky plus maintenance vs keeping a paid for 35K Pawnee flying.
Not hard for me to calculate:

1. Keep the Pawnee
2. Buy the two place
3. Add a winch to the operation and move toward a real sustainable
future.




  #3  
Old October 16th 07, 01:58 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bill Daniels
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 687
Default To Pawnee or not to Pawnee...that is the question...

I'll save a suggestion 'til last.

First, I've recently towed behind both a 180HP Husky and a 235 Pawnee at
Salida, CO where the density altitude was over 10,000 feet. Both tugs did
fine. In fact, I didn't see much difference.

For the Pawnee: It's a known quantity. There's plenty of experience around
both maintaining it and flying it. Against the Pawnee: It's old, thirsty
and it's a single seat which means using another airplane for tuggie
training.

For the Husky, it's available new, uses less fuel and it's a two seater -
and now it's available with 200HP. Against: It's expensive since it's new.

The fuel cost issue is becoming a real one. According to AirNav, the
average price for 100LL is now $4.61/gal with a maximum of $7.61. By next
summer it is likely to be more than $5/gal average.

My advice is keep the old Pawnee but minimize its use to save operating cost
and extend its life - and get a winch for training and joyrides.

Bill Daniels


"Travis Beach" wrote in message
...
Our club has a Piper Pawnee 235hp in excellent condition.
We just spent $35000 five years ago to completely overhaul
her...new fabric, new engine, anything that needed
to be replaced was...

Heres the rub...we are in the middle of a new two place
acquisition with the club making a decision about getting
a new two place intermediate performance. We were about
to drop the hammer when a very vocal minority raised
the issue of PAWNEE needing to be replaced citing extreme
maintenance cost (???) and inability to get parts.
He/She cited the local aero repair facility as his/her
source of information...Many of us just dont see this
as a problem. The replacement that was cited was a
Husky 180HP...I just dont see the reasoning of such
a switch...I surely would rather two a heavier two
place with a proven performer with 235 hp vs a 180...

What say you? Discuss...should we scrap the Pawnee
in favor of a Husky?

Beach





  #4  
Old October 17th 07, 12:05 AM
bagmaker bagmaker is offline
Senior Member
 
First recorded activity by AviationBanter: Aug 2005
Location: Melbourne Australia
Posts: 167
Default

The Pawnee is a tough bird, frame-wise, making it ideal for towing and off-feild retreives.

There are alternatives to lycoming powered Pawnee, in Australia they are trialling LS-1 Chev V8 engine power, prop drives through a belt reduction.

Downside- its experimental
Upside - no cooling issues, cheaper fuel, cheaper spares, cheaper engine rebuilds, faster climb rate, shorter take-off distance, quieter operation, etc, see also

http://www.gfa.org.au/airworth/engines.php

If more clubs took the punt on such an engine, it would be a simpler thing to get certified!

bagger
  #5  
Old October 17th 07, 01:31 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Martin Gregorie[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 276
Default To Pawnee or not to Pawnee...that is the question...

bagmaker wrote:
The Pawnee is a tough bird, frame-wise, making it ideal for towing and
off-feild retreives.

There are alternatives to lycoming powered Pawnee, in Australia they
are trialling LS-1 Chev V8 engine power, prop drives through a belt
reduction.

Downside- its experimental
Upside - no cooling issues, cheaper fuel, cheaper spares, cheaper
engine rebuilds, faster climb rate, shorter take-off distance, quieter
operation, etc, see also

http://www.gfa.org.au/airworth/engines.php

If more clubs took the punt on such an engine, it would be a simpler
thing to get certified!

The Swedes did a similar thing with a 225 hp Volvo V8 and claimed that
they got the liquid cooling advantage (no shock cooling, so faster
turnround) as well as hugely reduced fuel and engine maintenance costs.

I remember seeing a report in S&G and a search for "Pawnee Volvo engine"
will turn up online references.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |
 




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