Cirrus and Lancair Make Bonanza Obsolete?

Not yet, but I'll bet they will soon.

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:59:08 GMT, ArtP
wrote:

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:19:00 GMT, wrote:


On an airplane
like an Arrow you can extend the gear to greatly increase drag when things
get dicey. Obviously not an option in the Cirrus, but they could employ
spoilers or similar devices to achieve the same purpose.

Lancair does offer spoilers, but Cirrus does not.

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:40:44 -0700, "Tom S."
wrote:


"Dan Luke" wrote in message
...
"Tom S." wrote:
So let's send all the Bonanza's to the junkyard.

Let's send all the cars over 10 years old there too.

Gee, some V-tails are older than most people in this group.

And they're still being maintained and flown because, until recently, a
new airplane was virtually the same as a thirty-year old one. There was
little incentive to buy new. You could by an old Bo in decent shape and
make it as good as a new one (or better) for a lot less money.

Hint for the slow: We're talking USED aircraft.

...and the effect that the new designs may be having on used aircraft
prices. I was in the market for about an '85 model Bo or 210 a while
back, but now I'd seriously think about spending a little more and
getting a Cirrus.

That's nice, but read the subject line.

I hope to hell a current design can obsolesce a design that is basically 55
years old, and which has not been produced in nearly ten years.

Still being produced. Saw a brand new one recently. Didn't have the
correct tail on it, but the basic design was the same.

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 07:43:50 -0700, "Tom S."
wrote:


"Jeff" wrote in message ...
the SR22 is also a 310 HP engine correct?
what size engine is in the bonanzas?

IO-520-BB is 285, the IO-550 is 300

Add a Tornado Alley Whirlwind and keep those numbers up to 20,000 feet.

Maybe even 24,000 if you believe George!

Stu Gotts wrote:

The high insurance cost is attributed to the inability to properly
repair any damage. Almost any "bend" is a break and the thing is a
total. Sooner or later someone will come up with a way to fix them as
easily as they do Corvettes.

They can be fixed very easily today. Any mechanic who has worked with
both will tell you that the metal airplane is harder to fix and takes
longer.

"Tom S." wrote in message ...
"Jeff" wrote in message ...
If I had 300k to spend I would get a Barron


Why? Twice the maintenance with little more in performance.

Because the engine out performance is infinitely better.

That's just wrong. Go through the Accident records. Only 2 are spins and
one was by a test pilot.

"Tom S." wrote in message
...

They're not; they have atrocious safety records due to their spin
characteristics.

The POH and training both say that an incipient spin is countered as you
would in any plane. Fully developed, pull the chute.
BTW, the Cirrus isn't the only thing out there not approved for spins. The
others simply don't have ANY recovery mechanism in case of one. Case in
point: Grummans.

"Michael 182" wrote in message
news:5mRsb.193024$Tr4.545029@attbi_s03...
This bothered me as well. While I think the chute is a great idea, and
will
probably save a number of lives before all is said and done, doesn't it
strike you as strange that the POH (at least accourding to the NTSB report
I
read) says that the only method of spin recovery is to deploy the chute.
Why
doesn't opposite rudder work?

Michael

"Tom S." wrote in message
...
Nice to know that the only spin recovery is to deploy (maybe) a
'chute.

In the end, it's up to the individual buyer. For $300 you can get a new
Cirrus....comparables are what? T182's I guess? Diamond Twins? Not a new
Bo' and certainly not a Baron. The Beech's are terrific aircraft. My
uncles went back and forth between them as I was growing up so they're part
of my flying memories. The 182's are terrific machines as well.

I'm guessing that most (all?) talking down the SR22 haven't even flown one.
Try them all, do your homework and get the one that strikes your fancy.
BTW, Cirrus is selling around 50-60 planes per month. 16 delivered week
before last. Something's clearly going right there.

Have fun!

"Potential Bo Buyer" wrote in message
om...
Why is the market for late model V35B's and F33A's so flat. The
economic climate (real and perceived) and 90's run-up have a lot to do
with it, I'll acknowledge that. But there seems to be something else
at work in this market.

Are the Lancair Columbia and Cirrus SR22 substitute products for the
4-place Bonanzas? (For the sake of this post V35B's and F33A's are 4
place not 6 place airplanes. Keep it real.) To be honest, if I had
300K + in my budget I would probably evaluate the Columbia and SR22
first before considering a Bonanza. After all, they're faster with
fixed gear, won't corrode, have modern avionics and are 30 years newer
than the Bonanzas I'm considering.

It looks as if the once assumed appreciation rate for Bonanzas is in
for a big change. Agree? Thoughts?

I think the V35s and the f33 look alot nicer then the SR20-22s. I would
buy a V35 and spend some of the money that i saved by not buying a SR22
and put a very nice Panel in it. Just my thoughts

TONY

*** Sent via http://www.automationtools.com ***
Add a newsgroup interface to your website today.

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:45:11 -0800
Jeff wrote:

losing 1 of 2 is better then losing 1 of 1 ..
ka-boom

Not for my wallet.

R. Hubbell



"R. Hubbell" wrote:

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 02:32:02 -0800
Jeff wrote:

If I had 300k to spend I would get a Barron

You'll find two engines means you are twice as likely to loose one.
Kaaaaaching!

R. Hubbell



markjen wrote:

What you saying may have some slight effect, but it is minor compared to the
general price trends of all aircraft and complex retracts specifically.
Very seldom does the appearance of a new airplane have much affect on the
value of used airplanes.

And others have said, I don't see someone with a budget of $150K for a 170K
IFR bird cross-shopping late-model F33As/V35Bs with a new $300K airplane.
And I think may pilots, truth be told, want a retract even if there are
fixed-gear airplanes of similar performance. Light twins can seldom be
practically justified over a heavy single, but many folks just get more
pleasure out of flying a twin. Finally, a Bonanza is a much more
rugged/substantial airplane, a much better rough field airplane, has a much
bigger baggage area, is bigger/heavier and arguably more comfortable, and is
a better airplane for situations where you can't hangar - I'd consider
hangaring an absolute requirement for a composite airplane.

I'll admit I'm prejudice, but I just don't see 25-year-old SR22s holding up
like 25-year-old Bonanzas have.

That's not to say that SR22s and Columbia's don't have their advantages.
They're fast, sleek, quiet, probably safer, and have absolutely gorgeous
panels. If I had $300K to spend, I'll look at them very seriously.

- Mark