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#141
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VISUAL AIRCRAFT RECOGNITION
"Vince" wrote in message
... Jack Linthicum wrote: On May 3, 4:12 pm, Paul Elliot wrote: Vince wrote: http://new.photos.yahoo.com/paul1cart/albums/ Vince is a lawyer, he thinks that if he says the same wrong thing over and over that will eventually make it true or the listeners will be asleep. The Air Force Cross given Major Anderson must have been a real goof by the Air Force and Kennedy. http://cworld.clemson.edu/Fall2000/12thday.htm There is nothing that prevents the president from giving a medal to an air force officer flying for the CIA He was unquestionably engaged in an activity that was a violation of international law. He could not have been "ordered" on the mission. Vince What was he in violation of, specifically? AHS |
#142
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VISUAL AIRCRAFT RECOGNITION
"Vince" wrote in message ... TMOliver wrote: "Vince" wrote ... Spies get shot at all the time Doesn't make it a "battlefield" they were CIA flights I guess they forgot to tell you that those VFP-62 pilots were in Navy flight suits flying USNavy a/c - big bright stars and all - out of NAS Key West, JAX or off CVA decks. TMO the U-2 flights were cia No, Vince, they were Air Force. Although the data collected is "share" with the CIA and other branches of the Government. |
#143
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VISUAL AIRCRAFT RECOGNITION
"TMOliver" wrote in message ... "Tex Houston" wrote in message ... "TMOliver" wrote in message ... As late as 1957, there may have been a couple of TB-25s around for station "hack" service in the Training Command, and B-26s (NA, Not Martin), were still in ANG service (and used by the CIA/Cuban force strikes connected with the Bay of Pigs), but you're going to have to "show" us P-38s somewhere other than in your agaonized dreams before anybody will believe you... If by NA you mean North American you might consider how DOUGLAS would feel. I apologize for the brain fart. There's one of the last of them still flying sitting in a hangar just across the lake about 3 miles away. I'd appreciate your guess as to the last P-38 service date. What has been shown is that there are "Conflicting" reports of the actual date. The dates given by the Air Force Records might not be correct. I use the C-124 as an example where there may be a condition that won't allow you to take it out of service even though it's past the "Official" retirement date. The Records show that the last C-124 was boneyarded in 1974 yet in 1974 we did a flight down to DM with an out of time C-124, stripped it, rebuilt one that still had airframe time and flew it back to Elmendorf. As late as 1975 there were two Shakeys still flying out of Anchorage with only one mission. They resupplied Radar Sites on the Aleutians (sp). And they were the only AC in the inventory that you could drive an 8 wheeled fire engine onboard and deliver it on a Gravel or Crushed Rock runway. We lost one at one of the sites. The runway was very, very short, angled up and had a sheer drop-off into the ocean or channel (depending what you wish to call it). The Runway was covered with gravel and crushed rock. Here is the story that the Flight Engineer told. (not verbatim) quote We were landing when we hit a wind sheer just before touchdown. It forced us down. We crash landed. The bird skidded to a stop with it's landing gears sheared off. We all stood next to the Aircraft. The pilot asked me, "Don't you think you should shut the engines off?". All 4 were still turning with just the stubs of the propellers left. unquote Now for the rest of the story. Luckily the old shakey veered off the runway and allowed us to come in with a C-130 and Maint Crews. We stripped the good stuff and the engines off the crashed bird. Then they shoved the bird off the edge of the runway into the Ocean with a D-9 Cat. On the Herky Pig, we took off with 4 but landed back in Elmendorf with 3 a churnin. We Hoovered their runway on either the way in or the way out or probably both. That equipment we stripped off the stricken bird was taken back to DM and another one was built up and flown back. I don't know of ANY AC that could have had that type of crash and everyone walk away from and still have all 4 turning. Ask about the time (I wasn't there for this one) that the C-124 ditched in the Inlet and what they had to sink the danged thing. The point is, the "Official" records show the C-124 was completely taken out of service by 1974 yet those two flew years afterwards since nothing could replace them without FODing out engines. |
#144
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VISUAL AIRCRAFT RECOGNITION
"Arved Sandstrom" wrote in message news:h2t_h.1584$Vi6.1305@edtnps82... "Vince" wrote in message ... Jack Linthicum wrote: On May 3, 4:12 pm, Paul Elliot wrote: Vince wrote: http://new.photos.yahoo.com/paul1cart/albums/ Vince is a lawyer, he thinks that if he says the same wrong thing over and over that will eventually make it true or the listeners will be asleep. The Air Force Cross given Major Anderson must have been a real goof by the Air Force and Kennedy. http://cworld.clemson.edu/Fall2000/12thday.htm There is nothing that prevents the president from giving a medal to an air force officer flying for the CIA He was unquestionably engaged in an activity that was a violation of international law. He could not have been "ordered" on the mission. Vince What was he in violation of, specifically? In the Recon world, if you ain't caught you ain't guilty of a damned thing. |
#145
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VISUAL AIRCRAFT RECOGNITION
"Vince" wrote in message
... [ SNIP ] The hostility of the environment is clear. However Reconnaissance in an environment where you cannot openly protect your aircraft and are not establishing targets is not a battlefield. Vince ??? That makes no sense. AHS |
#146
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VISUAL AIRCRAFT RECOGNITION
Arved Sandstrom wrote:
"Vince" wrote in message ... Jack Linthicum wrote: On May 3, 4:12 pm, Paul Elliot wrote: Vince wrote: http://new.photos.yahoo.com/paul1cart/albums/ Vince is a lawyer, he thinks that if he says the same wrong thing over and over that will eventually make it true or the listeners will be asleep. The Air Force Cross given Major Anderson must have been a real goof by the Air Force and Kennedy. http://cworld.clemson.edu/Fall2000/12thday.htm There is nothing that prevents the president from giving a medal to an air force officer flying for the CIA He was unquestionably engaged in an activity that was a violation of international law. He could not have been "ordered" on the mission. Vince What was he in violation of, specifically? AHS Cuban sovereign airspace Vince |
#147
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VISUAL AIRCRAFT RECOGNITION
"TMOliver" wrote in message ... As for the RB-66's use in combat photo recon, the bird performed didn't last long in that role (just as it had not done well as a bomber), replaced quickly by far more survivable RF4s. The RB-66 was unsuited for low level battlefield recon, too slow (and to the air crew who flew them sharing with the A3 and EA3s the dicey escape method, down, instead of the more conventional upward ejection). The RB-57s were developed to do what the RB-66 did, while the Navy's last version of a similar a/c, the EA3, flew on for many years, longer than the attempt to salvage the Navy's A-5 program with the RA5C. TMO Which model A3 had ejection seats? Tex |
#148
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VISUAL AIRCRAFT RECOGNITION
Arved Sandstrom wrote:
"Vince" wrote in message ... [ SNIP ] The hostility of the environment is clear. However Reconnaissance in an environment where you cannot openly protect your aircraft and are not establishing targets is not a battlefield. Vince ??? That makes no sense. AHS A firing squad is a dangerous place but its not a "battlefield" Vince |
#149
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VISUAL AIRCRAFT RECOGNITION
"TMOliver" wrote in message ... I'd appreciate your guess as to the last P-38 service date. TMO Anything I would venture would indeed be a guess. I think early as I never saw one fly until 1976 (Lefty Gardner's "White Lightning"). Tex |
#150
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VISUAL AIRCRAFT RECOGNITION
"Tex Houston" wrote in message
.. . "TMOliver" wrote in message ... As for the RB-66's use in combat photo recon, the bird performed didn't last long in that role (just as it had not done well as a bomber), replaced quickly by far more survivable RF4s. The RB-66 was unsuited for low level battlefield recon, too slow (and to the air crew who flew them sharing with the A3 and EA3s the dicey escape method, down, instead of the more conventional upward ejection). The RB-57s were developed to do what the RB-66 did, while the Navy's last version of a similar a/c, the EA3, flew on for many years, longer than the attempt to salvage the Navy's A-5 program with the RA5C. TMO Which model A3 had ejection seats? Only USAF's B-66s |
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