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Maxwell writes:

Again, you statement shows you don't understand the self defense laws, and
qualifications for the license.

That depends on the jurisdiction. In places like the UK, he's pretty much on
the mark. Not every jurisdiction allows you to draw and shoot every time you
feel threatened.

Having a license and carrying a legal
concealed weapon does not give you the right to use the weapon unless you
have no other choice. You are still responsable for taking any and all
reasonable avoidance options.

So the actual probability of being in a situation where you can legally use it
is extraordinarily low.

One reason why professional criminals don't routinely carry guns is that they
don't usually need them and they can get in trouble if someone finds that they
have one.

Matt Whiting writes:

We don't have much crime where I live either and at least every other
person is armed according to the latest statistics I've seen.

They may be comparing guns to population, but that's a bit simplistic.

I note that most people either have no gun at all (the usual case), or they
have _lots_ of guns. So the reality is that many people are unarmed, and
those who are armed are armed to the teeth.

writes:

The fact that virtually every Swiss household has at least one firearm
per adult male yet has a extremely low crime rate is something the
anti-firearms people don't like to talk about.

I don't mind talking about it. The problem is that Americans are not Swiss,
and Americans are preoccupied and keenly interested in violence, whereas the
Swiss are not.

Maxwell writes:

Find any instance were a licensed person in the US has
exited his car at a traffic stop and fired on the police.

Most people driving have a license, even those who fire on police.

"Jose" wrote in message
t...
but given the tendency for the European politicos to promote a United
Europe, I find the border crossings still quite interesting.

In all fairness, Europe is made up of different =countries=. The United
States is all one country. I expect border crossing between Spain and
Portugal to be different than from Connecticut to Rhode Island.

Jose
--

Jose,
that's the way you and I understood it to be since ... forever. But when
I was in Germany awhile back the political powers were all squawking about
how a United Europe was going to stand as a peer to the United States in
technology, medicine, financial power, and a load of other crap. We don't
really hear about that here in the US and maybe I just happened to be there
during a time when the topic was very "newsworthy". Nevertheless, if Europe
wants to claim its united status (as they are attempting to do with the
Euro) then let's measure them by the same yardstick.



--
Jim Carter
Rogers, Arkansas

Nevertheless, if Europe wants to claim its
united status (as they are attempting to do with the
Euro) then let's measure them by the same yardstick.

Talk is talk. It's one thing to link one's currencies together (and
after that, changing the name is only symbolic). It's quite another
thing to link one's constitutions together, and surrender one's
soveriginity. I don't see that happening. I don't even see noises in
that direction.

When you were in Germany, were the German political powers talking about
living under France's rules, or Spain's?

Jose
--
There are two kinds of people in the world. Those that just want to
know what button to push, and those that want to know what happens when
they push the button.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Maxwell" wrote:
I read them pretty fast, but didn't see any reference to the shooters
have a hand gun license. Did I miss something, or did you
misunderstand my use of the term licensed persons?

I assumed auto license since your statement read "...licensed person in the
US has exited his car...." Proximity of the two words mislead me so I
misunderstand your intent.

I sit corrected.

"Blueskies" wrote:
"Jim Logajan" wrote in message
.. .
"Maxwell" wrote:
Find any instance were a licensed person in the US
has exited his car at a traffic stop and fired on the police.

Trivially easy:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...ies-shot_x.htm

http://www.lanecounty.org/News/News_...ease_12821.htm


Neither of these were done by licensed gun carriers.

Quite - as stated in another post I somehow managed to overlook the context
of the subthread and for some reason assumed "licensed" meant "licensed
driver" which, in retrospect, was a dumb mistake.

D'oh!

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Maxwell writes:

Again, you statement shows you don't understand the self defense laws,
and
qualifications for the license.

That depends on the jurisdiction. In places like the UK, he's pretty much
on
the mark. Not every jurisdiction allows you to draw and shoot every time
you
feel threatened.

Having a license and carrying a legal
concealed weapon does not give you the right to use the weapon unless you
have no other choice. You are still responsable for taking any and all
reasonable avoidance options.

So the actual probability of being in a situation where you can legally
use it
is extraordinarily low.

One reason why professional criminals don't routinely carry guns is that
they
don't usually need them and they can get in trouble if someone finds that
they
have one.

Right.

"Jim Logajan" wrote in message
.. .
"Blueskies" wrote:
"Jim Logajan" wrote in message
.. .
"Maxwell" wrote:
Find any instance were a licensed person in the US
has exited his car at a traffic stop and fired on the police.

Trivially easy:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...ies-shot_x.htm

http://www.lanecounty.org/News/News_...ease_12821.htm


Neither of these were done by licensed gun carriers.

Quite - as stated in another post I somehow managed to overlook the
context
of the subthread and for some reason assumed "licensed" meant "licensed
driver" which, in retrospect, was a dumb mistake.


Not dumb, just simple. Conceal licensed folks are usually accepted as the
good guys by law enforcement. You have to have a pretty clear record to
obtain one. When the law passed in my state, most of the guys where I worked
were all touting they would be the first to sign up. It was a big deal. We
were all passing around the phone number for ordering the applications forms
and talking about it daily. But when the information started arriving,
clearly 1 in 3 that intended to apply found they couldn't quailify. A friend
of my was sighed for assualt 3 years earlier, for simply shoving someone in
a bar. He didn't actally hit the guy. But it disquaified him.

Others were declined over simple protective orders from past divorces, a pot
bust many years earlier, etc. You truly have to qualify with you past
record.