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#41
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"Roy Smith" wrote in message ... My knowledge and experience as a pilot can tell me whether *I* think I can safely complete the approach or not. They cannot tell me whether my clearance to do so has been revoked. This isn't that hard. If you can comply with the restriction and still complete the approach your clearance hasn't been revoked. That should be obvious to you. |
#42
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wrote in message ... On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 22:20:51 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll" wrote: ....Nothing which appears below. Please use a bit more care with what you snip when replying to a message. But, how do I tell, just from what the controller says, if it will prevent the completion of the approach or not? It seems reasonable in the scenario under discussion, that "cross PAGAR at or above 4000" should not be a problem. But what about "Cross ELESE at or above 4000", or "Cross NADSY at or above 4000", or "Cross PAGER at or above 15,000"? Do any of those imply "cancel previous approach clearance? How about just asking the controller? |
#43
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"Peter R." wrote in message ... Today I was practicing a GPS approach and had been cleared for the approach with the normal, "Cessna XXX, cross ELESE at 3,000, cleared GPS 15 approach." A minute or so later the controllers switched positions and another one took over that slice of airspace. The new one came on frequency and called my aircraft with, "Cessna XXX, traffic one o'clock, 2,500 and two miles, southbound" (the traffic was was crossing my path right to left underneath me). I replied, "Negative traffic" to which he responded, "Maintain 3,000." Being momentarily confused, I called to clarify the altitude restriction. The controller responded rather tersely that he wanted me at 3,000 for traffic avoidance. Should the controller have canceled my approach clearance first, then issued the altitude restriction? The controller should have complied with the phraseology requirements of FAAO 7110.65P Chapter 4-5-7 (Posted below): f. When the "pilot's discretion" portion of a climb/descent clearance is being canceled by assigning a new altitude, inform the pilot that the new altitude is an "amended altitude." EXAMPLE- "American Eighty Three, amend altitude, descend and maintain Flight Level two six zero." NOTE- American Eighty Three, at FL 280, has been cleared to descend at pilot's discretion to FL 240. Subsequently, the altitude assignment is changed to FL 260. Therefore, pilot's discretion is no longer authorized. Your approach clearance involved a pilot's discretion descent when you were cleared to cross ELESE at 3000 and cleared for approach. Subsequently, ATC ammended your altitude assignment, thus cancelling your PD descent (and also your approach clearance). Whether or not ATC actually had legitimate traffic for you (airspace class and traffic rules VFR/IFR), in this case you still received an ammended altitude clearance. If the controller had simply complied with his own language requirements, you would likely have been much clearer on the situation. You could have replied "Cessna XXX, maintaining 3000, standing by for the GPS approach clearance" or something like that. Chip, ZTL |
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