Tow plane ideas

On Tuesday, June 1, 2021 at 7:35:52 AM UTC-4, Glenn Betzoldt wrote:
Our club is selling one of our winches, we have two. Our TOST double winch is for sale. It's on a International truck flat bed so it can be driven to location's on the airport.

Three cheers for this idea!

On Wednesday, May 26, 2021 at 2:37:37 PM UTC-4, jackson...com wrote:
My glider club is looking into the possibility of a new or upgraded tow plane. We currently have a 160hp supercub, but we have also looked into a rare-as-hens-teeth piper pawnee. As i poke around barnstormers and trade a plane, i have seen ads for a 190hp vans RV-6, a maule 235, a stinson 200+ hp, motorgliders, cessna 188, etc.

Anyone out there have some ideas for a tow plane that might be very functional but also (perhaps) not well known? Ive seen stories on stinson's maule's and wilga's being used in the past, for example, but it would be good to hear of some currently used "unusual" towplanes.

thanks for any feedback!
I've towed with Citabria, Scout, Maule, Luscombe with 150hp, C-150-150, C-182, Pawnee (235 and 265), and an L-19. Citabria was OK, but under powered. Scout was good. Maule visibility is scary when towing. Luscombe wanted to swap ends when landing. C-150-150 was Ok but still a little weak. C-182 had overheating issues. Pawnees are easy to land, 235 has fixed pitch so less maintenance and operating expense than the 265, wing fuel reduces pilot fatigue compared to center tank on bumpy days. L-19 is an absolute pleasure to fly and tows well, but it's expensive to operate and becoming difficult to get parts. No perfect tow ship, all have pros and cons.

On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 2:40:37 PM UTC-4, PGS S. wrote:
On Wednesday, May 26, 2021 at 2:37:37 PM UTC-4, jackson...com wrote:
My glider club is looking into the possibility of a new or upgraded tow plane. We currently have a 160hp supercub, but we have also looked into a rare-as-hens-teeth piper pawnee. As i poke around barnstormers and trade a plane, i have seen ads for a 190hp vans RV-6, a maule 235, a stinson 200+ hp, motorgliders, cessna 188, etc.

Anyone out there have some ideas for a tow plane that might be very functional but also (perhaps) not well known? Ive seen stories on stinson's maule's and wilga's being used in the past, for example, but it would be good to hear of some currently used "unusual" towplanes.

thanks for any feedback!
I've towed with Citabria, Scout, Maule, Luscombe with 150hp, C-150-150, C-182, Pawnee (235 and 265), and an L-19. Citabria was OK, but under powered.. Scout was good. Maule visibility is scary when towing. Luscombe wanted to swap ends when landing. C-150-150 was Ok but still a little weak. C-182 had overheating issues. Pawnees are easy to land, 235 has fixed pitch so less maintenance and operating expense than the 265, wing fuel reduces pilot fatigue compared to center tank on bumpy days. L-19 is an absolute pleasure to fly and tows well, but it's expensive to operate and becoming difficult to get parts. No perfect tow ship, all have pros and cons.

No perfect tow ship, all have pros and cons.

Probably also good to consider noise issues if sensitive neighbors are a concern. All of the CS props are noisy as heck -
especially the 260 hp Pawnee and the Callair when either has a CS prop.
Roy

Not so noisy if the pilot would only reduce propeller RPM after
achieving a safe climb.Â* I was the only tuggie at Moriarty who did
that.Â* The others make ear shattering noise as they over fly the
hangars.Â* They still have full propeller RPM after release.Â* Some people
never learn...

Dan
5J

On 6/3/21 2:19 PM, Roy B. wrote:
No perfect tow ship, all have pros and cons.

Probably also good to consider noise issues if sensitive neighbors are a concern. All of the CS props are noisy as heck -
especially the 260 hp Pawnee and the Callair when either has a CS prop.
Roy

On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 6:35:29 PM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
Not so noisy if the pilot would only reduce propeller RPM after
achieving a safe climb. I was the only tuggie at Moriarty who did
that. The others make ear shattering noise as they over fly the
hangars. They still have full propeller RPM after release. Some people
never learn...

Dan
5J
On 6/3/21 2:19 PM, Roy B. wrote:
No perfect tow ship, all have pros and cons.

Probably also good to consider noise issues if sensitive neighbors are a concern. All of the CS props are noisy as heck -
especially the 260 hp Pawnee and the Callair when either has a CS prop.
Roy
Just remember, Duct Tape is not a fix for stupidity! Had a guy here at my strip that had a Cessna 185 with a constant speed prop. Every time that idiot took off he rattled the windows, he never learned, finally moved away. There is a perfect tow ship, one that you don't own and can get a tow whenever you want.

On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 4:35:00 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 6:35:29 PM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
Not so noisy if the pilot would only reduce propeller RPM after
achieving a safe climb. I was the only tuggie at Moriarty who did
that. The others make ear shattering noise as they over fly the
hangars. They still have full propeller RPM after release. Some people
never learn...

Dan
5J
On 6/3/21 2:19 PM, Roy B. wrote:
No perfect tow ship, all have pros and cons.

Probably also good to consider noise issues if sensitive neighbors are a concern. All of the CS props are noisy as heck -
especially the 260 hp Pawnee and the Callair when either has a CS prop.
Roy
Just remember, Duct Tape is not a fix for stupidity! Had a guy here at my strip that had a Cessna 185 with a constant speed prop. Every time that idiot took off he rattled the windows, he never learned, finally moved away. There is a perfect tow ship, one that you don't own and can get a tow whenever you want.

What about the Pipistrel Virus?
https://www.pipistrel-aircraft.com/a...-121/#tab-id-3
Tom

I would scour the Earth to find a suitable Pawnee before I would accept a substitute tow plane. The club in which I belong too operates 2 of them. We also have a 180HP Super Cub. I have towed behind other tow planes in other locations which always left me unimpressed. Pawnees are still out there. Lots of them are still farm fresh though. In my opinion they should be stripped and the ferrous items evaluated and epoxy primered. Those chemicals that the spayers use are extremely caustic.
The real issue is......what’s your budget? You can spend $50-60K on a “working� Pawnee, then another 70-80K having it restored to make a good tow plane. Then you will have roughly $125K in a great tow plane that could fetch you $90K should you choose to sell it.
Other than these financial pit falls, I feel the Pawnee is the best tow plane by far. Extremely durable, great visibility, relatively easy to get parts (though sometimes you have to get them from Argentina—-which is painful). Very easy to fly. And there are enough of us out there maintaining these things that the knowledge base is still really strong.
Are 2 pawnees have been completely gone through, epoxy coated and new Ceconite covered. I wouldn’t consider parting with them as long as we are pulling gliders around. Once you get a good one you will keep it as long as your club is operating. Good Luck!

On Monday, June 7, 2021 at 10:36:02 AM UTC-7, wrote:
I would scour the Earth to find a suitable Pawnee before I would accept a substitute tow plane. The club in which I belong too operates 2 of them. We also have a 180HP Super Cub. I have towed behind other tow planes in other locations which always left me unimpressed. Pawnees are still out there. Lots of them are still farm fresh though. In my opinion they should be stripped and the ferrous items evaluated and epoxy primered. Those chemicals that the spayers use are extremely caustic.
The real issue is......what’s your budget? You can spend $50-60K on a “working� Pawnee, then another 70-80K having it restored to make a good tow plane. Then you will have roughly $125K in a great tow plane that could fetch you $90K should you choose to sell it.
Other than these financial pit falls, I feel the Pawnee is the best tow plane by far. Extremely durable, great visibility, relatively easy to get parts (though sometimes you have to get them from Argentina—-which is painful). Very easy to fly. And there are enough of us out there maintaining these things that the knowledge base is still really strong.
Are 2 pawnees have been completely gone through, epoxy coated and new Ceconite covered. I wouldn’t consider parting with them as long as we are pulling gliders around. Once you get a good one you will keep it as long as your club is operating. Good Luck!

The original poster was/is looking for alternatives to Pawnees, so I assume that he already knows about the merits/demerits of Pawnees.

Tom

On Monday, June 7, 2021 at 8:34:01 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
On Monday, June 7, 2021 at 10:36:02 AM UTC-7, wrote:
I would scour the Earth to find a suitable Pawnee before I would accept a substitute tow plane. The club in which I belong too operates 2 of them. We also have a 180HP Super Cub. I have towed behind other tow planes in other locations which always left me unimpressed. Pawnees are still out there.. Lots of them are still farm fresh though. In my opinion they should be stripped and the ferrous items evaluated and epoxy primered. Those chemicals that the spayers use are extremely caustic.
The real issue is......what’s your budget? You can spend $50-60K on a “working� Pawnee, then another 70-80K having it restored to make a good tow plane. Then you will have roughly $125K in a great tow plane that could fetch you $90K should you choose to sell it.
Other than these financial pit falls, I feel the Pawnee is the best tow plane by far. Extremely durable, great visibility, relatively easy to get parts (though sometimes you have to get them from Argentina—-which is painful). Very easy to fly. And there are enough of us out there maintaining these things that the knowledge base is still really strong.
Are 2 pawnees have been completely gone through, epoxy coated and new Ceconite covered. I wouldn’t consider parting with them as long as we are pulling gliders around. Once you get a good one you will keep it as long as your club is operating. Good Luck!
The original poster was/is looking for alternatives to Pawnees, so I assume that he already knows about the merits/demerits of Pawnees.

Tom
Andy, the more you post the confirmation of my opinion of you goes to a higher bar. Here you are a motorglider guy trying to tell the purist community that a 100 hp Rotax is a good alternative for a towplane. Please bring one of those pimp mobiles to Florida so that I may tie it to the tow line at the end of my Pawnee and drag it through the sky. The Purist, Old Bob