Wow, C150 = Time Saver = Awesome 3 Days.

On 28 Jun 2005 06:16:08 -0700, wrote in
.com::

If I compare a 4 hr drive I need a least about 3 hrs to do the same
journey by plane

Right. The additional overhead of flight not withstanding, if one
were to average 60 mph on the road for four hours, s/he'd have to make
160 mph to cover the same distance by air in 1-1/2 hours. Of course,
that analysis doesn't take into account commuter congestion on the
highway that may reduce the 60 mph average speed significantly.

From what I am told, the insurance gets a LOT higher with a twin.

Chris

(Not cross-posted to r.a.owning since I don't subscribe to it)

NW_PILOT wrote:
"Peter R." wrote in message
oups.com...

NW_PILOT wrote:


Found the Perfect way to
use my little 150 and My Instrument Rating. Makes that Little word
"Commuter" on the cowling mean somthing hehehehehe,

Do any barrel rolls along the way? ;-)

--
Peter



Nope, My airplane is not certificated for doing rolls if business starts
improving I may be able to afford one that is certified to, but I think I
may end up getting a Piper Seneca would be more fun with the second engine
and longer range.

In article .com,
says...


Hi Steve,

Thats cool.
Just a question or two.
How do you make those times?

My plane has a about the same speed as a C150.
If I compare a 4 hr drive I need a least about 3 hrs to do the same
journey by plane if the clock starts ticking the moment I close the
door behind me.
The airport is just 10 min. away, pre-flight the plane etc. 30 min.,
1.5 hrs for the flight, 20 min. after I'm landed and then I'm only at
another airport.
And that is probably not my final destination, so I need a taxi for the
last leg.


Good point. Many of the planes we fly today were designed, if not built,
back in the '50's and early '60's. At that time few interstate highways
existed, and rural routes and other highways were frequently two-lane
roads with lots of dangerouis intersections. A long road trip would
frequently see 35MPH average speeds, and some unpaved sections were not
uncommon in many parts of the US. So a 200-mile trip would be 5 to 6
hours by car, and under 2 hours in a C-150.

Today, you frequently average close to 60MPH in a car, and you can
almots always make 50 average, so the same trip takes only 3 to 4 hours
in the car, and still close to 2 in a C-150, with a C-172 not that much
better. Factor in the fact that you have you car to tool around once you
get there, and it really puts a damper on utility for that category of
aircraft. Oh, and - I didn't even mention cost - or weather . . .

G Faris

How do you manage it?

-Kees.

Sounds like fun!
I was recently (two weeks ago) on an engineering job outside of Paris France
(180nm SW of Paris). My programmer was arriving from Los Angeles on Friday
morning, and we had to get him to the site in time to meet with the
contractors before they all took off for the weekend. I could drive up to get
him, but as you say this would have been 4 hours each way - tiring to the
point of being dangerous, and not exactly optimal use of my time. Train
schedules were not cooperating, despite the excellent trains in Europe, they
are not perfect to all destinations at all times.

Weather was great though, and there was an airport a couple miles away, with
a flying club where I was able to rent a 172. Did a checkride the night
before, then launched in the morning, had a stunning tour of the French
countryside and had my guy on site before lunch! And the total cost of the
operation was not that much more than the train, that would have had him
there at 5PM.

Everyone was thrilled with the "usefullness" of the small plane that saved
the day - but in truth we sort of hit everything "on the numbers". The trip
was just long enough to be useful, but short enough to be practical. Weather
was fine - couldn't have planned this ahead of time under VFR, Other
transportation means were not coming through - and of course my car was
already there, so we weren't stranded upon landing.

The only "imperfect" element was that in Europe you cannot fly into large,
ommercial airports - at any cost. Charles de Gaulle is strictly off limits to
GA, so I had to get the guy to taxi to a small airport, which cost him some
time and money - but he was more than glad for the sightseeing tour. He only
saved 2.5 hours, compared to me driving him, but for me it was three hours of
relaxing flight, compared with eight hours of stressful driving.

G Faris

On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 16:17:29 +0200, Greg Farris
wrote in ::

Sounds like fun!
I was recently (two weeks ago) on an engineering job outside of Paris France
(180nm SW of Paris). My programmer was arriving from Los Angeles on Friday
morning, and we had to get him to the site in time to meet with the
contractors before they all took off for the weekend. I could drive up to get
him, but as you say this would have been 4 hours each way - tiring to the
point of being dangerous, and not exactly optimal use of my time. Train
schedules were not cooperating, despite the excellent trains in Europe, they
are not perfect to all destinations at all times.

Weather was great though, and there was an airport a couple miles away, with
a flying club where I was able to rent a 172. Did a checkride the night
before, then launched in the morning, had a stunning tour of the French
countryside and had my guy on site before lunch! And the total cost of the
operation was not that much more than the train, that would have had him
there at 5PM.

Everyone was thrilled with the "usefullness" of the small plane that saved
the day - but in truth we sort of hit everything "on the numbers". The trip
was just long enough to be useful, but short enough to be practical. Weather
was fine - couldn't have planned this ahead of time under VFR, Other
transportation means were not coming through - and of course my car was
already there, so we weren't stranded upon landing.

The only "imperfect" element was that in Europe you cannot fly into large,
ommercial airports - at any cost. Charles de Gaulle is strictly off limits to
GA, so I had to get the guy to taxi to a small airport, which cost him some
time and money - but he was more than glad for the sightseeing tour. He only
saved 2.5 hours, compared to me driving him, but for me it was three hours of
relaxing flight, compared with eight hours of stressful driving.

G Faris

What a great story. Thanks for the information.

I thought there was considerably more involved then a typical check
out in renting an aircraft from an French aero club. Are you fluent
in French? What of the differences in ATC operation, charts, etc?

You make it sound so easy.

In article ,
says...


What a great story. Thanks for the information.

I thought there was considerably more involved then a typical check
out in renting an aircraft from an French aero club. Are you fluent
in French? What of the differences in ATC operation, charts, etc?

You make it sound so easy.



I am fluent in French, and have lived, worked and flown there quite a bit.
In this particular case though, both airports were towered with English
speaking permitted, so probably anyone could have done this particular trip.
You can easily buy 1/500 charts, somewhat similar to sectionals (four of them
cover all of France) and they have an excellent on-line service for VFR
approach and airport information plates.

Look at :
http://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv..../VAC/P/VAC%20A
D%202.LFPT.pdf

to see the Paris airport I flew into - a 20 min taxi ride from Charles de
Gaulle where my programmer's 777 landed.

Airspace considerations require some familiarity - but everything is charted
and you can get clearances in English. I hear quite a few Brits on the
frequency, though I think you get more efficient service if you communicate in
French, and most non-towered airports are French only.

G Faris

It's called mountain Ranges!!! C150 goes over them Car goes around them look
it up map quest it!

wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi Steve,

Thats cool.
Just a question or two.
How do you make those times?

My plane has a about the same speed as a C150.
If I compare a 4 hr drive I need a least about 3 hrs to do the same
journey by plane if the clock starts ticking the moment I close the
door behind me.
The airport is just 10 min. away, pre-flight the plane etc. 30 min.,
1.5 hrs for the flight, 20 min. after I'm landed and then I'm only at
another airport.
And that is probably not my final destination, so I need a taxi for the
last leg.

How do you manage it?

-Kees.

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
If I compare a 4 hr drive I need a least about 3 hrs to do the same
journey by plane

Right. The additional overhead of flight not withstanding, if one
were to average 60 mph on the road for four hours, s/he'd have to make
160 mph to cover the same distance by air in 1-1/2 hours. Of course,
that analysis doesn't take into account commuter congestion on the
highway that may reduce the 60 mph average speed significantly.

Look at a map. The route he's talking about, there's no way you can even
max out at 60 mph for most of the route, never mind *average* that speed.

This is, in fact, quite common in the western states. There are a handful
of routes served by the interstate highways, but many trips involve crossing
mountain passes, and/or either a relatively direct but winding road, or
going way out of your way to stay on fast highways. Either way, the driving
time winds up significantly higher than flying time.

That said, there's certainly some truth to the post you quoted (as opposed
to your own). The original poster gave the specific numbers, but at 1.5
hours might have left out the elements you describe in a different post:
driving to the airport, preflighting the airplane, flight planning,
transportation at the other end. Even allowing for the different in route
length for driving versus flying, a 1.5 hour flight could easily include
another 1.5 hours for overhead.

Or, it might not. It really depends on the situation. Flight planning is
minimized where the route is frequently flown. It's not outside the realm
of possibility that the original poster not only lives close to his airport
base, but that his client is willing to meet him at the destination airport,
or that that airport is close to his client (or both).

All of that overhead could easily have been included in the original post.
The distance between Vancouver and Yakima is only about 100 miles, a 1 hour
flight in a 150. Since the original post specified a 1.5 hour trip time, if
the other elements were abbreviated, it could well be a reasonably close
estimate of the door-to-door time.

Personally, as I am based at an airport 30 minutes from my home, and as my
preflight usually takes at least 20-30 minutes (from the time I arrive at
the airport, to the time I'm ready to start up the airplane), I have found
that 3 hours is about the break-even point. For locations served by the
same highways that go past my home, this can be roughly estimated using a
60mph average driving time. For the many locations around here that aren't
so convenient, a shorter straight-line distance and flying time can result
in breaking even or better.

All this, of course, ignores the question of whether one would be spending
that time flying anyway. For someone for whom this sort of flying is
additional, not included in one's additional flying budget, that's probably
not an appropriate factor to include (eg one is charging the transportation
costs to a client). For many of us however, there is a ballpark number of
hours we'll fly each year; if some of that time is spent getting from one
place to another, all the better, but in that case the time spent actually
flying, and even getting to and one's home airport, may not be counted
toward the total trip time, since that's recreational time you'd have spent
anyway.

In any case, I think it's silly to take the original post to task for the
details. The poster is well-known for glossing over specific details
anyway, and the basic gist of his post is plenty to the point and accurate:
an airplane can be quite a convenience.

Pete

On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 11:18:47 -0700, "Peter Duniho"
wrote in
::

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
.. .
If I compare a 4 hr drive I need a least about 3 hrs to do the same
journey by plane

Right. The additional overhead of flight not withstanding, if one
were to average 60 mph on the road for four hours, s/he'd have to make
160 mph to cover the same distance by air in 1-1/2 hours. Of course,
that analysis doesn't take into account commuter congestion on the
highway that may reduce the 60 mph average speed significantly.

Look at a map.

You're correct; I am not familiar with the route.

That said, there's certainly some truth to the post you quoted (as opposed
to your own).

You found _nothing_ truthful in my follow up article?

In any case, I think it's silly to take the original post to task for the
details.

What makes you think I took the poster to task? * That seems to more
accurately characterize your demeanor.

The poster is well-known for glossing over specific details
anyway, and the basic gist of his post is plenty to the point and accurate:
an airplane can be quite a convenience.

Pete



*

http://thesaurus.reference.com/searc...ke%20to%20task

2 entries found for take to task.
Main Entry: bawl out
Part of Speech: verb
Definition: severely reprimand
Synonyms: berate, castigate, chew out, dress down, have words, jump
down one's throat, punish, rake over the coals, reprimand, rip into,
scold, take to task, tell off, upbraid, yell at
Antonyms: praise
Source: Roget's New Millennium™ Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.1.1)
Copyright © 2005 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.

Main Entry: bring to book
Part of Speech: verb
Definition: call to account
Synonyms: call on the carpet, read the riot act, take to task,
tongue lash
Source: Roget's New Millennium™ Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.1.1)
Copyright © 2005 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.

Nice thing is my clients in Tacoma send a car to pick me up at the airport
and then let me use a company car if I need to make an errand. Wish my
clients in Tri City's Would do that they just reimburse me for my rental. My
new clients near Quincy, Wa 5 miles form the job site will be sending one of
them long cars and I will be getting to meet a lot of interesting people
hehehehehe!

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 18:55:46 -0700, "NW_PILOT"
wrote in ::

I did it in just about 1.5 hour's in my C150.

What is the distance from the airport to your client's site? How do
you commute there and back to the airport? When you add in the pre
flight planning and post flight time, how does it compare with
automobile travel?

Don't get me wrong. I'd far prefer to commute by air than monitor the
white line for four hours, but there tends to be a lot of additional
"overhead" involved in flight that is absent in commuting by
automobile not the least of which is the cost and inconvenience of
securing ground transportation.