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#11
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The Swedish Model: How to build a jet fighter.
On May 9, 4:57*pm, Dan wrote:
Douglas Eagleson wrote: snip The russian mig-30 that literally stops in mid flight and recovers, is another example. A forward canard allows this. * * The "cobra" maneuver is not a very good combat move. Do a simple free body diagram to see what happens to acceleration and velocity vectors. The MiG is a sitting duck throughout the maneuver and takes a long time to recover. Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired The maneuver is obviously only a technical ability. As dog fighting goes a well planned first approach with missles always wins. A dogfight as a rule can be forced with the lost aircraft. A sucker aircraft and absorb/take the radar. after this occur a true missilefree dogfight happens. All free battle has an AMERICAN superior first strike built in. If this is lost, then what happens is a secondary senario occurs. An litteral aircraft to aircraft and attritionloss war. When attrition dictates a winner what happens? So large air battle planning fails when aircraft performance only dictates. |
#12
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The Swedish Model: How to build a jet fighter.
Douglas Eagleson wrote:
On May 9, 4:57 pm, Dan wrote: Douglas Eagleson wrote: snip The russian mig-30 that literally stops in mid flight and recovers, is another example. A forward canard allows this. The "cobra" maneuver is not a very good combat move. Do a simple free body diagram to see what happens to acceleration and velocity vectors. The MiG is a sitting duck throughout the maneuver and takes a long time to recover. Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired The maneuver is obviously only a technical ability. It's only good for air shows. As dog fighting goes a well planned first approach with missles always wins. Not always. What happens if the missile fails to perform or the target outmaneuvers it? A dogfight as a rule can be forced with the lost aircraft. A sucker aircraft and absorb/take the radar. Please translate. after this occur a true missilefree dogfight happens. All free battle has an AMERICAN superior first strike built in. If this is lost, then what happens is a secondary senario occurs. An litteral aircraft to aircraft and attritionloss war. When attrition dictates a winner what happens? All wars are a function of attrition. So large air battle planning fails when aircraft performance only dictates. Not to put to fine a point on things, but ALL battle planning is limited to by the assets on hand to include available technology. Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired |
#13
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The Swedish Model: How to build a jet fighter.
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#14
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The Swedish Model: How to build a jet fighter.
"Dan" wrote in message ... Douglas Eagleson wrote: On May 9, 4:57 pm, Dan wrote: Douglas Eagleson wrote: snip The russian mig-30 that literally stops in mid flight and recovers, is another example. A forward canard allows this. The "cobra" maneuver is not a very good combat move. Do a simple free body diagram to see what happens to acceleration and velocity vectors. The MiG is a sitting duck throughout the maneuver and takes a long time to recover. Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired The maneuver is obviously only a technical ability. It's only good for air shows. As dog fighting goes a well planned first approach with missles always wins. Not always. What happens if the missile fails to perform or the target outmaneuvers it? A dogfight as a rule can be forced with the lost aircraft. A sucker aircraft and absorb/take the radar. Please translate. after this occur a true missilefree dogfight happens. All free battle has an AMERICAN superior first strike built in. If this is lost, then what happens is a secondary senario occurs. An litteral aircraft to aircraft and attritionloss war. When attrition dictates a winner what happens? All wars are a function of attrition. It might not always be readily apparent but not all wars involve Americans either. But why are we arguing with a bot anyway? So large air battle planning fails when aircraft performance only dictates. Not to put to fine a point on things, but ALL battle planning is limited to by the assets on hand to include available technology. Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired |
#15
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The Swedish Model: How to build a jet fighter.
Roger Conroy wrote:
But why are we arguing with a bot anyway? Got to admit I too suspected a bot. Bot or not, the engagement doesn't seem worth the fuel. -- sjs |
#16
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The Swedish Model: How to build a jet fighter.
On Fri, 09 May 2008 19:48:38 -0500, Dan wrote:
Douglas Eagleson wrote: On May 9, 4:57 pm, Dan wrote: Douglas Eagleson wrote: snip The russian mig-30 that literally stops in mid flight and recovers, is another example. A forward canard allows this. The "cobra" maneuver is not a very good combat move. Do a simple free body diagram to see what happens to acceleration and velocity vectors. The MiG is a sitting duck throughout the maneuver and takes a long time to recover. Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired The maneuver is obviously only a technical ability. It's only good for air shows. And impressing the Chicks. As dog fighting goes a well planned first approach with missles always wins. A well planned anything usually wins over an ad-hoc response. Not always. What happens if the missile fails to perform or the target outmaneuvers it? Plan B. There always needs to be a Plan B. A dogfight as a rule can be forced with the lost aircraft. A sucker aircraft and absorb/take the radar. Please translate. That would be nice. after this occur a true missilefree dogfight happens. All free battle has an AMERICAN superior first strike built in. If this is lost, then what happens is a secondary senario occurs. An litteral aircraft to aircraft and attritionloss war. When attrition dictates a winner what happens? All wars are a function of attrition. Even if it is simply an attrition of will. A Semi-decent example would be the Iraqi Air force in both conflicts. They didn't even try. So large air battle planning fails when aircraft performance only dictates. Not to put to fine a point on things, but ALL battle planning is limited to by the assets on hand to include available technology. Which would of course include Intel, such as the enemies weapon platforms capabilities. There is a reason the "Top-Speed" of US Naval Vessels is never mentioned, or talked about in only general terms. If you know what the other guy is capable of, you've got one leg up in the planning process. If you know where he is at & what he is going to do (tactics) you've got another leg up. Some of the major naval battles of WW II were won by pure dumb luck. Both sides planned, but one found out the location of the other first. -- "Before all else, be armed" -- Machiavelli |
#17
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The Swedish Model: How to build a jet fighter.
On Sat, 10 May 2008 08:26:43 +0200, "Roger Conroy"
wrote: "Dan" wrote in message ... Douglas Eagleson wrote: On May 9, 4:57 pm, Dan wrote: Douglas Eagleson wrote: snip The russian mig-30 that literally stops in mid flight and recovers, is another example. A forward canard allows this. The "cobra" maneuver is not a very good combat move. Do a simple free body diagram to see what happens to acceleration and velocity vectors. The MiG is a sitting duck throughout the maneuver and takes a long time to recover. Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired The maneuver is obviously only a technical ability. It's only good for air shows. As dog fighting goes a well planned first approach with missles always wins. Not always. What happens if the missile fails to perform or the target outmaneuvers it? A dogfight as a rule can be forced with the lost aircraft. A sucker aircraft and absorb/take the radar. Please translate. after this occur a true missilefree dogfight happens. All free battle has an AMERICAN superior first strike built in. If this is lost, then what happens is a secondary senario occurs. An litteral aircraft to aircraft and attritionloss war. When attrition dictates a winner what happens? All wars are a function of attrition. It might not always be readily apparent but not all wars involve Americans either. But why are we arguing with a bot anyway? Perhaps not directly, but since the US is the number one Arms Dealer in the world, perhaps we are if even just by proxy. So large air battle planning fails when aircraft performance only dictates. Not to put to fine a point on things, but ALL battle planning is limited to by the assets on hand to include available technology. Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired -- "Before all else, be armed" -- Machiavelli |
#18
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The Swedish Model: How to build a jet fighter.
On Fri, 09 May 2008 23:21:39 -0700, Steve Hix
wrote: In article , (Richard Casady) wrote: On Fri, 09 May 2008 21:45:15 GMT, Ed Rasimus wrote: And what will happen when someone invents a doppler radar that doesn't see ground clutter? I was under the impression that look down, shoot down had been around for many years. Ed was gigging Eagleson. Who isn't likely to notice, sadly. While some think Eagleson is a 'bot, my theory is mental illness. Casady |
#19
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The Swedish Model: How to build a jet fighter.
On May 10, 2:50*pm, (Richard Casady)
wrote: On Fri, 09 May 2008 23:21:39 -0700, Steve Hix wrote: In article , (Richard Casady) wrote: On Fri, 09 May 2008 21:45:15 GMT, Ed Rasimus wrote: And what will happen when someone invents a doppler radar that doesn't see ground clutter? I was under the impression that look down, shoot down had been around for many years. Ed was gigging Eagleson. Who isn't likely to notice, sadly. While some think Eagleson is a 'bot, my theory is mental illness. Casady I talk funny it is mental illness. What a kick. |
#20
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The Swedish Model: How to build a jet fighter.
On May 10, 3:27 pm, Douglas Eagleson
wrote: SNIP I talk funny it is mental illness. What a kick. SNIP: That illness is truly unfortunate and you can't help it. What you can do to help yourself is to educate yourself in aerodynamics and later on, fighter capabilities and tactics. Your conclusions are faulty because you do not truly understand these subjects. I recommend, at the least, a visit to your local library and spend a month or so studying these areas. At the present time you are an amateur trying to argue with professionals who devoted a career to the subject. Walt BJ |
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