Doors popping open in flight

I learned to fly in the summer so we always took off with the doors open
Really? It's part of the run-up checklist, isn't it?

I was flying C140's and Aeroncas. The "runup checklist" was CIGARS.
Strangely, we didn't all die a flaming death contrary to what people
often think today.

-Robert

gatt wrote:



A high-wing door -should- close itself enough that it won't disrupt airflow.
A low-wing door, which is what I was flying, is a little trickier, I THINK
because the low pressure over the wing draws the door out slightly, but the
airflow keeps it closed enough that I determined that trying to close it in
solo flight was more of a distraction that landing the airplane at a nearby
strip and resecuring the door.


Having had both, a 182 and now a Bonanza, I can comment. The doors on
both open about the same amount, 2-3 inches. That's where the
similarity ends. In the low wing the noise will be tremendous and the
airflow thru the cabin will really move stuff around. It is so quiet in
the Cessna that I have flown for quite a while and not known the
passenger side door was open. The Cessna door can be shut just like you
were sitting on the ground, the airflow is irrelavant. In my Bo the
door is about welded open those few inches. I have been at 80 mph and
there's no way to close the door. Perhaps with some unusual attitudes,
I haven't tried that.

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
oups.com...
I learned to fly in the summer so we always took off with the doors open
Really? It's part of the run-up checklist, isn't it?

I was flying C140's and Aeroncas. The "runup checklist" was CIGARS.
Strangely, we didn't all die a flaming death contrary to what people
often think today.


Lets see, open door in a Beech Sport - noisy but otherwise no big deal. Land
and close it.

Then there was the "sandwich" incident...

My brother and I had been visiting the 'rents and were flying back in a
C-120. Mom, of course, packed us a lunch to take with us. So, I'm hungry,
and I reach behind the seat feel around, come up with a sandwich. Turns out
to be a dry bologna sandwich, bread wasn't that fresh, but whatever... Then
my brother, being the smarter of the two of us, though to actully unbuckle
and LOOK instead of just feeling around over the seat back. A moment later,
he announces "Hey! There's a box of doughnuts back here!". Without even
thinking, I open up the door and throw the sandwich out.

It took a couple tries, but I managed to get the door closed again, then it
occured to me - what was under us when I threw the sandwich out? As luck
would have it, we were over nothing but farms so the sandwich probably just
landed in a field unnoticed. But I've always wondered what someone would
have thought if they had seen two half eaten slices of bread and some
bologna falling out of the sky.

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

"Ol Shy & Bashful" wrote in message
oups.com...
Bob
I participated in an accident investigation years ago on a Beech Queen
Air A65/80 that crashed after a baggage door opened in flight shortly
after takeoff at ABQ. It turned out the baggage was spilling out of the
compartment into the left propellor causing an engine failure. It was
not an aircraft design problem causing the crash, but one of pilot
error. I got involved simply because the aircraft that crashed was one
digit away from the one I was flying at the time and we used it to
attempt duplication of the crash scenario to see if it was aircraft
design or pilot error.

I believe Ben Abruzzo the ballonist also died that way in ABQ in a Cessna
421. He was headed out on a ski trip with a plane load of passengers. The
nose baggage door popped open and skis began to head for the propeller. I
think someone said he intended to shut down the left engine but somehow
wound up shutting them both down. Almost made it back to the runway but hit
a raised road just short and burst into flames.

I found this googling:

February 11, 1985: Ben Abruzzo, a crew member on the Double Eagle II, the
first balloon to cross the Atlantic Ocean nonstop, was killed along with
several passengers when his twin-engine plane crashed shortly after taking
off from the Albuquerque, New Mexico airport. An investigation showed that
the probable cause of the crash was an external luggage compartment door
which had been left open. The best idea from aircraft data was that he had
pulled back on the gas of the closest prop to the door and then
inadvertently feathered the wrong prop, thus rendering both engines
inoperative. Before his death, Abruzzo was also a member of the first team
to fly a balloon nonstop across the Pacific Ocean.

I knew a couple who were the proud owners of a new Velocity. One day
they were taking off when suddenly the door not only opened, but
departed the aircraft. They made an immediate (and uneventful) landing,
retrieved the door, and reinstalled it following repairs. Dunno whether
a change of underpants was necessary or not.

One time I had a cowl flap depart the aircraft in flight (with a bang).
It seems the hinge pin had broken it's safety wire and worked it's way
out of the hinge. The plane flew no differently with it gone - so I
continued to my home airport, which was not far away.

Another time I had a cowling access door open part way in flight. One
of the two latches had failied, but fortunately the other one held. The
door bulged outward and did cause the aircraft to yaw to the left
somewhat (but nothing serious). I landed at the nearest airport, and on
the advice of a mechanic there, effected a temporary cure with duct
tape. That got me home with no further difficulty.

David Johnson

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
news%jbg.22154$ZW3.504@dukeread04...
On a single-engine, a door opening is not serious, but a
twin with a door open and the engine on the opposite side
might get interesting. The open door would probably raise
Vmca because of the air flow disruption on the side where
maximum rudder effectiveness would be required.

Yes, I think this best describes the situation that my very experienced
pilot friend twice described about the disruption of the airflow once the
door had popped open.

"
A high-wing door -should- close itself enough that it won't disrupt
airflow. A low-wing door, which is what I was flying, is a little
trickier, I THINK


Exactly, YES it was a LOW WING! Sorry I didn't mention that earlier. I
thought it to be presumed!

A suicide door on an airplane? WTF were they thinking?? Thanks for pointing
that out, I would have never guessed an engineer could be that daft. I am
not that familiar with this model, Is there any reason that they would want
this to work that way?

"karl gruber" wrote in message
...
The real problem with a twin is if the forward baggage door opens, breaks
off due to air loads, and goes through the prop.

There have been several accidents due to this and all the ones I remember
were fatal. There was also an R-22 helicopter here in the NW that just had
the window come off the door a couple of years ago. That window went
through the tail rotor and caused a fatal crash. (This particular window
was an unapproved modification)

Many Cessna 206 and 207 aircraft have had their rear cargo door open in
flight. This is a suicide door and hinges the door to the rear. In this
case the door slams back against the fuselage and causes extensive damage,
but the airplane is controllable.

Best,
Karl
ATP,CFI,ETC
"Curator" N185KG


"bob" wrote in message
. ..
How serious is it on small twin engines with only one door? Or with 2
doors, for that matter?

A friend of mine tells me that he once had a twin engine Piper crash to
investigate due to ditching. It was later learned upon the conclusion
of the investigation that a passenger in the back seat was trying to
switch places with someone in the front and the door inadvertently popped
open. At that point the investigator determined, from his own similar
experience, that the plane sunk like a rock due to critical disruption of
the airflow to that could not be corrected in flight.
--The door could not be closed again!---

As for my friend with his similar experience, his friend's hand was all
bloody from trying to hold it closed as much as he could. Fortunately,
they made a safe emergency landing at an island the just happened to be
nearby.

I've only flow small single engines and had NO IDEA how serious this
could be. They don't teach you that in flight school. Or is it because
single engines with only one door do not react the same as the twins.

Tell me the straight skinny so I know next time I go flying.

Thanks

In my Arrow IV, I have taken off with the door open more than once. I
followed the procedures, vents closed, window open, 80 kts??, and slip.
While solo, I was able to close the bottom latch, but not the top. No big
deal, I think the manual even says you can fly like this with no adverse
effects. The other day I had a CFII with me, and same deal, only he could
not close the top or bottom from the passenger seat. I guess the passenger
has less leverage. We just landed and closed the door.

"gatt" wrote in message
news

"bob" wrote in message
. ..

I've only flow small single engines and had NO IDEA how serious this
could be. They don't teach you that in flight school. Or is it because
single engines with only one door do not react the same as the twins.

Tell me the straight skinny so I know next time I go flying.

I posted about this a couple of weeks ago when the door on the Arrow II I
was flying unlatched.

A high-wing door -should- close itself enough that it won't disrupt
airflow. A low-wing door, which is what I was flying, is a little
trickier, I THINK because the low pressure over the wing draws the door
out slightly, but the airflow keeps it closed enough that I determined
that trying to close it in solo flight was more of a distraction that
landing the airplane at a nearby strip and resecuring the door.

My windbreaker and sectional vanished, though.

-c

Soxinbox,

In my Arrow IV, I have taken off with the door open more than once.


May I ask why?

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)