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jls wrote:

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...

MC wrote:


Matt Whiting wrote:


wrote:


On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 18:32:55 GMT, "Howard Nelson"
wrote:



Athiest is a religion. Reading further into the stats on that
site they say 15% of the world's population have no religion and

that number is falling, which I find surprising.


Probably so. Religion and revolution always rise when existence
becomes too harsh to rationally accept.


I also am curious about your assertion that "atheism is a religion".

As far as I know, there are no atheistic altars, no stone

buildings,no

holy books, no wailing walls, no ceremonies, no prayers, no hymns,
indeed, none of the things that are generally associated with
religion..



If one were to define religion as a "belief a theory which cannot

be proven by scientific inquiry (i.e.. a faith) then atheism would
qualify as a religion since you can no more prove the absence of
GOD then one can prove the existence of GOD.


My definition of a real, authentic religion is that it requires at
least a few people who are willing to kill others who don't believe as
they do. Christianity, Islam, Hindu, Sikh, even Buddhism, (I
believe), all qualify.



That is the dumbest definition I've ever heard.


Actually, it is the essence of a true believer..
"True Believers" *know* that they *are* right and
therefore anybody who has any dissenting view is a
non-believer and must to be killed because they are
obviously influenced by spirits/devil(s)/etc and
cannot be allowed to spread their contagion.

AFAIK and history bears it out, atheists, agnostics
and people with non-fanatical religious beliefs don't
go around killing people who hold contrary views.

Neither do people who belong to legitimate and mainstream religions. It
is fun to watch folks like you try to lump fanatic nut cases like Hitler
with religion. I'm sorry you don't have a legitimate issue and have to
fabricate issues like this to try to support your prejudices.


During Hitler's ascendancy and power, millions did not view him as a
"fanatic nut case." Matter of fact he visited regularly with his close
friend Pope Pius in Rome.

I didn't say he was stupid. Most fanatics are pretty good a camoflaging
it until they have sufficient power to accomplish their goals.

Matt

Murder is not generally considered a religious trait.

That's only because religious people don't regard it as murder if they
kill
someone who doesn't belong to their faith. More people have been killed
over
religion than anything else.

You know I agree with you, but my point is that murder is not restricted to
religions or religious people.

There have been plenty of people killed by atheists and agnostics.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 10:17:16 -0500, Matt Whiting
wrote:

That's only because religious people don't regard it as murder if they kill
someone who doesn't belong to their faith. More people have been killed over
religion than anything else.

Where is your data? I think far more have been killed over greed than
religion. Unfortunately, my data is about as good as yours. :-)


Matt


Religion is a form of greed.

As an example, when the rapture comes, only the born again will enjoy
the blessings of heaven, while the rest of us burn in a sea of fire.

Not really a good example of sharing the wealth, is it?

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 10:18:38 -0500, Matt Whiting
wrote:

Neither do people who belong to legitimate and mainstream religions. It
is fun to watch folks like you try to lump fanatic nut cases like Hitler
with religion. I'm sorry you don't have a legitimate issue and have to
fabricate issues like this to try to support your prejudices.


During Hitler's ascendancy and power, millions did not view him as a
"fanatic nut case." Matter of fact he visited regularly with his close
friend Pope Pius in Rome.

I didn't say he was stupid. Most fanatics are pretty good a camoflaging
it until they have sufficient power to accomplish their goals.

Matt

I think the point is that Pius was quite willing to play footsies with
Hitler, not how smart Hitler was.

There was no question about Hitler's character when he was meeting
with his pals in the Vatican. Furthermore, the relationship was as
much about the power of the church as it was Hitler's.

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
G.R. Patterson III wrote:


Jay Honeck wrote:

Murder is not generally considered a religious trait.


That's only because religious people don't regard it as murder if they
kill
someone who doesn't belong to their faith. More people have been killed
over
religion than anything else.

Where is your data? I think far more have been killed over greed than
religion. Unfortunately, my data is about as good as yours. :-)


Matt

I think you have a point there, Matt. Religion, to quote Stendhal, is
founded on the fears of the many and the cleverness of the few. The greedy
few have slyly used religion to mobilize the masses to do their bidding over
the centuries. Kings, prelates, despots, corporate executives, charismatic
ministers, governors, even elected presidents have found religion useful in
their hunger for wealth and power.

The Bible's justification of slavery -- e. g., the story of Ham in the Old
Testament and Paul's and Timothy's letters in the New --- was quite helpful
for the Conquistadors, the Pilgrims, Tidewater Aristocrats, and the Southern
Planters when they settled the New World.

Hilarious.

"Matt Whiting" wrote:

What's funny about it?

I just find really stupid statements humorous.

You must really crack yourself up.

wrote:

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 09:16:34 -0500, Matt Whiting
wrote:


And there is a recent christian culture that gassed and burned 6
million human beings.

I'm not sure what a christian culture is, but a Christian culture didn't
do that. It was a Christian culture that came to the defense of the Jews.



You need to pick up a good history book and spend a little time with
it.

Hardly. Show me one shred of evidence that says Hitler was a bona fide
Christian. Show me one shred of evidence that says Christianity
supports genocide of Jews.


Matt

wrote:

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 10:17:16 -0500, Matt Whiting
wrote:


That's only because religious people don't regard it as murder if they kill
someone who doesn't belong to their faith. More people have been killed over
religion than anything else.

Where is your data? I think far more have been killed over greed than
religion. Unfortunately, my data is about as good as yours. :-)


Matt



Religion is a form of greed.

As an example, when the rapture comes, only the born again will enjoy
the blessings of heaven, while the rest of us burn in a sea of fire.

Not really a good example of sharing the wealth, is it?

Certainly it is. Everyone has the opportunity to be part of the
rapture. Only those who choose not to participate will be left behind.
It doesn't get any more generous than that. It is entirely your
choice. What more could you ask for?

Matt

wrote:

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 10:18:38 -0500, Matt Whiting
wrote:


Neither do people who belong to legitimate and mainstream religions. It
is fun to watch folks like you try to lump fanatic nut cases like Hitler
with religion. I'm sorry you don't have a legitimate issue and have to
fabricate issues like this to try to support your prejudices.


During Hitler's ascendancy and power, millions did not view him as a
"fanatic nut case." Matter of fact he visited regularly with his close
friend Pope Pius in Rome.

I didn't say he was stupid. Most fanatics are pretty good a camoflaging
it until they have sufficient power to accomplish their goals.

Matt


I think the point is that Pius was quite willing to play footsies with
Hitler, not how smart Hitler was.

There was no question about Hitler's character when he was meeting
with his pals in the Vatican. Furthermore, the relationship was as
much about the power of the church as it was Hitler's.

I'm no supporter of the Catholic church, so I won't argue with you
there. The Catholic church doesn't follow the Bible in many ways and
much of what they believe in and do is simply not supported by scripture
and often outright condemned.

I know most Catholics would disagree, but I don't consider Catholicism
to be Christianity as they tend to elevate Mary to a level equal to or
even higher than Christ.

Matt