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#81
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"Stuart Wilkes' mom" wrote in message . net...
Stuey, It's time to go to bed. Now get your batman pajamas on and turn that computer off. "Snuffy Smith" NNTP-Posting-Host: 68.192.189.54 "Stuart Wilkes' mom" NNTP-Posting-Host: 68.192.189.54 Why don't you toddle off and tell some spiteful lies, Mark. Stuart Wilkes "Stuart Wilkes" wrote in message om... "Keith Willshaw" wrote in message ... "Stuart Wilkes" wrote in message om... "Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj" wrote in message ... Stuart Wilkes wrote: Wasn't there an embargo placed on shipments of steel between the two countries, as well as access to oil? Not while the Soviet-Japan border war was going. That ran between 1937 - 1939. The US did not freeze Japanese assets and embargo scrap steel and oil until 1941. How does this support your implications? It has nothing to do with them, since the shipments continued throughout the entire Soviet-Japan border war. No state of war was ever declared, A state of war existed. Hence all the tanks going to-and-fro over various borders. there were a series of border clashes culminating in the battle of Khalkin Ghol between May and Sept 1939. Border clashes... that inflicted more casualties on the IJA than the British Armed Forces managed at Singapore. Hm. Stuart Wilkes |
#82
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"Stuart Wilkes" wrote in message om... "Stuart Wilkes' mom" wrote in message . net... Stuey, It's time to go to bed. Now get your batman pajamas on and turn that computer off. "Snuffy Smith" NNTP-Posting-Host: 68.192.189.54 "Stuart Wilkes' mom" NNTP-Posting-Host: 68.192.189.54 Why don't you toddle off and tell some spiteful lies, Mark. Stuart Wilkes Hah-hah-hah! So you weren't sure if it was your mom or not Stuey? You went to a lot of trouble to check. Do your batman pajamas have a drop seat and sewn on feet? Once again we see that you are the world's most boring person. If you can't talk about your tired old WWII crap, you can't talk about anything. Turn your PC off Stuey and go get a life! "Stuart Wilkes" wrote in message om... "Keith Willshaw" wrote in message ... "Stuart Wilkes" wrote in message om... "Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj" wrote in message ... Stuart Wilkes wrote: Wasn't there an embargo placed on shipments of steel between the two countries, as well as access to oil? Not while the Soviet-Japan border war was going. That ran between 1937 - 1939. The US did not freeze Japanese assets and embargo scrap steel and oil until 1941. How does this support your implications? It has nothing to do with them, since the shipments continued throughout the entire Soviet-Japan border war. No state of war was ever declared, A state of war existed. Hence all the tanks going to-and-fro over various borders. there were a series of border clashes culminating in the battle of Khalkin Ghol between May and Sept 1939. Border clashes... that inflicted more casualties on the IJA than the British Armed Forces managed at Singapore. Hm. Stuart Wilkes |
#83
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Mark Brooks wrote in message . net...
"Stuart Wilkes" wrote in message om... "Stuart Wilkes' mom" wrote in message . net... Stuey, It's time to go to bed. Now get your batman pajamas on and turn that computer off. "Snuffy Smith" NNTP-Posting-Host: 68.192.189.54 "Stuart Wilkes' mom" NNTP-Posting-Host: 68.192.189.54 Why don't you toddle off and tell some spiteful lies, Mark. Stuart Wilkes Hah-hah-hah! So you weren't sure if it was your mom or not Stuey? Your continual ill-tempered spleen-venting and repeated spiteful lies are a unique signature, Mark. As is the posting host of all your aliases. You went to a lot of trouble to check. No. It's easy to check. It's a lot harder to munge a dozen e-mail addresses. Do your batman pajamas have a drop seat and sewn on feet? Once again we see that you are the world's most boring person. We see that Mark has little better to do than denigrate others. Of course, being full of bile himself, it's probably the only thing that prevents him exploding. If you can't talk about your tired old WWII crap, you can't talk about anything. The present Russian position with the IMF isn't WWII related. And it appears that many share my WWII interest. You showed interest too, until you found me correcting your poorly-researched howlers and many spiteful lies. Turn your PC off Stuey and go get a life! I'm doing very well with my life. Which is why I don't spew bile and spiteful lies in newsgroups. But you clearly have no alternative form of release... Stuart Wilkes "Stuart Wilkes" wrote in message om... "Keith Willshaw" wrote in message ... "Stuart Wilkes" wrote in message om... "Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj" wrote in message ... Stuart Wilkes wrote: Wasn't there an embargo placed on shipments of steel between the two countries, as well as access to oil? Not while the Soviet-Japan border war was going. That ran between 1937 - 1939. The US did not freeze Japanese assets and embargo scrap steel and oil until 1941. How does this support your implications? It has nothing to do with them, since the shipments continued throughout the entire Soviet-Japan border war. No state of war was ever declared, A state of war existed. Hence all the tanks going to-and-fro over various borders. there were a series of border clashes culminating in the battle of Khalkin Ghol between May and Sept 1939. Border clashes... that inflicted more casualties on the IJA than the British Armed Forces managed at Singapore. Hm. Stuart Wilkes |
#84
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Subject: 50% of NAZI oil was supplied from US
From: (Stuart Wilkes) Date: 10/25/03 10:35 AM Pacific Daylight Time Message-id: talk about your tired old WWII crap, you can't talk about anything. The present Russian position with the IMF isn't WWII related. And it appears that many share my WWII interest. I would say that in a thread called Nazi Oil the basic subject IS WW II. If WW II doesn't interest you,go elsewhere. |
#85
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Michael Petukhov wrote in message ...
"Geoffrey Sinclair" wrote in message ... This will probably appear in the wrong place thanks to a bad news server. Bad or not that bad. How about this? Let us see now, instead of answering the problems with the oil claim the subject is simply changed. Effectively none of my text makes it to the non reply. No attempt to explain the appearance of a non existent Spanish oil refinery, nor why the claimed imports of US oil do not match the German records, nor Spanish records, nor why the British would let hundreds of Spanish tanker sailings full of oil simply sail past Gibraltar for 4 years of war and so on. Instead we have a shock horror story of how some people in the US invested in Germany before and after Hitler came to power and that some liked his ideas. Then add a whole lot of accusations. The usual trawl of the internet to find someone who agrees the earth is flat and that it means we are really riding on the backs of 4 elephants who are in turn supported by a great turtle cruising through space. USSR trade with Germany, million marks, value of German imports from USSR, 1933 194, 1934 210, 1935 215, 1936 93, 1937 65, 1938 53 1939 30 1940 391. value of German exports to USSR 1933 282, 1934 63, 1935 39, 1936 126, 1937 117, 1938 34, 1939 31, 1940 216. Germany's share of USSR foreign trade, percentages, year / imports / exports 1933 42.5 /18.7 1934 12.4 / 23.5 1935 9.0 / 18.0 1936 22.8 / 8.6 1937 14.9 / 6.2 1938 4.7 / 6.6 Stalin was quite a happy trader with Nazi Germany, despite the Nazi Government's ideology that called for the destruction of the USSR, the Nazis did not call for the destruction of the USA. People do trade. (snip) Among the U.S. corporations that invested in Germany during the 1920s were Ford, General Motors, General Electric, Standard Oil, Texaco, International Harvester, ITT, and IBM — all of whom were more than happy to see the German labor movement and working-class parties smashed. For many of these companies, operations in Germany continued during the war (even if it meant the use of concentration-camp slave labor) with overt U.S. government support. "Pilots were given instructions not to hit factories in Germany that were owned by U.S. firms," writes Michael Parenti. "Thus Cologne was almost leveled by Allied bombing but its Ford plant, providing military equipment for the Nazi army, was untouched; indeed, German civilians began using the plant as an air raid shelter." The Ford plant was hit, using a truck plants as an example ignores the allies largely ignored such factories in their target selection, they went for aircraft factories, oil and transport links and the German cities. Remember the US government paid compensation to the firms for bomb damage, no need if no damage. Also blaming US management for what the management did in Germany while the US was at war with Germany is an impressive leap in bad logic. (snip) rest. Geoffrey Sinclair Remove the nb for email. |
#86
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"Geoffrey Sinclair" wrote in message ... Michael Petukhov wrote in message ... The Ford plant was hit, using a truck plants as an example ignores the allies largely ignored such factories in their target selection, they went for aircraft factories, oil and transport links and the German cities. What's amusing about the conspirowhacko sites Michael loves so much is they always ignore the Opel truck plant, which was pretty well destroyed by bombing. Opel was (and still is) owned by General Motors. Keith |
#87
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"Geoffrey Sinclair" wrote in message ...
Michael Petukhov wrote in message ... "Geoffrey Sinclair" wrote in message ... This will probably appear in the wrong place thanks to a bad news server. Bad or not that bad. How about this? Let us see now, instead of answering the problems with the oil claim the subject is simply changed. Well you could note I do not get salary to answer on all your claims. You cite one book I cite a couple of others which seem show very different pictures on the matter discussed. Any one can decide which version is closer to sad reality, including you and me. That's all as far as I understand. Although I do appreciate your contribution and the numbers you cited. So now I better understand what was US official line of defence on its supplies to NAZI germany. A good starting point to look a bit deeper. When and if I find something extrodinary like yours "non existent Spanish oil refinery" in Canaries I'll post it, don't worry. Effectively none of my text makes it to the non reply. Maybe. Although unfortunately I do not have the book to decide how objective, selfconsistent and complete is it. All the best Michael No attempt to explain the appearance of a non existent Spanish oil refinery, nor why the claimed imports of US oil do not match the German records, nor Spanish records, nor why the British would let hundreds of Spanish tanker sailings full of oil simply sail past Gibraltar for 4 years of war and so on. Instead we have a shock horror story of how some people in the US invested in Germany before and after Hitler came to power and that some liked his ideas. Then add a whole lot of accusations. The usual trawl of the internet to find someone who agrees the earth is flat and that it means we are really riding on the backs of 4 elephants who are in turn supported by a great turtle cruising through space. USSR trade with Germany, million marks, value of German imports from USSR, 1933 194, 1934 210, 1935 215, 1936 93, 1937 65, 1938 53 1939 30 1940 391. value of German exports to USSR 1933 282, 1934 63, 1935 39, 1936 126, 1937 117, 1938 34, 1939 31, 1940 216. Germany's share of USSR foreign trade, percentages, year / imports / exports 1933 42.5 /18.7 1934 12.4 / 23.5 1935 9.0 / 18.0 1936 22.8 / 8.6 1937 14.9 / 6.2 1938 4.7 / 6.6 Stalin was quite a happy trader with Nazi Germany, despite the Nazi Government's ideology that called for the destruction of the USSR, the Nazis did not call for the destruction of the USA. People do trade. (snip) Among the U.S. corporations that invested in Germany during the 1920s were Ford, General Motors, General Electric, Standard Oil, Texaco, International Harvester, ITT, and IBM ? all of whom were more than happy to see the German labor movement and working-class parties smashed. For many of these companies, operations in Germany continued during the war (even if it meant the use of concentration-camp slave labor) with overt U.S. government support. "Pilots were given instructions not to hit factories in Germany that were owned by U.S. firms," writes Michael Parenti. "Thus Cologne was almost leveled by Allied bombing but its Ford plant, providing military equipment for the Nazi army, was untouched; indeed, German civilians began using the plant as an air raid shelter." The Ford plant was hit, using a truck plants as an example ignores the allies largely ignored such factories in their target selection, they went for aircraft factories, oil and transport links and the German cities. Remember the US government paid compensation to the firms for bomb damage, no need if no damage. Also blaming US management for what the management did in Germany while the US was at war with Germany is an impressive leap in bad logic. (snip) rest. Geoffrey Sinclair Remove the nb for email. |
#88
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On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 07:37:50 -0000, "Keith Willshaw"
wrote: "Geoffrey Sinclair" wrote in message ... Michael Petukhov wrote in message ... The Ford plant was hit, using a truck plants as an example ignores the allies largely ignored such factories in their target selection, they went for aircraft factories, oil and transport links and the German cities. What's amusing about the conspirowhacko sites Michael loves so much is they always ignore the Opel truck plant, which was pretty well destroyed by bombing. Opel was (and still is) owned by General Motors. Keith Truck production in Germany was never up to the level as to effect the conduct or outcome of the war. The Germans used hundreds of thousands of horses in their invasion of the USSR in 1941 because of their lack of efficient transport. It got even worse as the war progressed. One of the chief advantages the Soviets had in their campaign against the Germans was the tens of thousands of excellent, dependable trucks shipped to them from the West, which ran well even in the Soviet Winter. This allowed the Soviets to move vast amounts of men and materiel faster and more efficiently than the Germans. The Germans never did grasp the importance of motorized transportation, putting the priority of the rebuilding or repairing of truck plants behind that of of the rebuilding of aircraft and tank factories. It is ironic that the Germans didn't put much effort into building good shoes for their troops, given they had to do so much walking!! As a matter of interest, there were about 350,000 trucks and almost 100,000 jeeps (the commissars didn't like walking) shipped to the Soviets during WWII. |
#89
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"E. Barry Bruyea" wrote in message ... On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 07:37:50 -0000, "Keith Willshaw" wrote: "Geoffrey Sinclair" wrote in message ... Michael Petukhov wrote in message ... The Ford plant was hit, using a truck plants as an example ignores the allies largely ignored such factories in their target selection, they went for aircraft factories, oil and transport links and the German cities. What's amusing about the conspirowhacko sites Michael loves so much is they always ignore the Opel truck plant, which was pretty well destroyed by bombing. Opel was (and still is) owned by General Motors. Keith Truck production in Germany was never up to the level as to effect the conduct or outcome of the war. The Germans used hundreds of thousands of horses in their invasion of the USSR in 1941 because of their lack of efficient transport. It got even worse as the war progressed. One of the chief advantages the Soviets had in their campaign against the Germans was the tens of thousands of excellent, dependable trucks shipped to them from the West, which ran well even in the Soviet Winter. This allowed the Soviets to move vast amounts of men and materiel faster and more efficiently than the Germans. The Germans never did grasp the importance of motorized transportation, putting the priority of the rebuilding or repairing of truck plants behind that of of the rebuilding of aircraft and tank factories. Of course the Germans couldnt find adeqaute fuel for the motorised transport they had so producing more trucks wasnt a realistic option anyway It is ironic that the Germans didn't put much effort into building good shoes for their troops, given they had to do so much walking!! As a matter of interest, there were about 350,000 trucks and almost 100,000 jeeps (the commissars didn't like walking) shipped to the Soviets during WWII. In addition to the 22,000 aircraft (7,400 Commonwealth and 14,500 US) and 12,750 tanks (5,200 Commonwealth, 7,550 US) and 2000 railway locomotives they got. Keith |
#90
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This will probably appear in the wrong place thanks to a bad
news server. Michael Petukhov wrote in message ... "Geoffrey Sinclair" wrote in message ... Michael Petukhov wrote in message ... "Geoffrey Sinclair" wrote in message ... This will probably appear in the wrong place thanks to a bad news server. Bad or not that bad. How about this? Let us see now, instead of answering the problems with the oil claim the subject is simply changed. Well you could note I do not get salary to answer on all your claims. So we can take it as read Michael is paid to post material that to be true requires a major conspiracy involving the faking of American, British, French, Spanish and German documentation. Since the alleged conspiracy requires American oil to Germany via Spain and France with Britain allowing the tankers to sail by Gibraltar for years. You cite one book I cite a couple of others which seem show very different pictures on the matter discussed. Any one can decide which version is closer to sad reality, including you and me. That's all as far as I understand. This is really funny, "all care and no responsibility". Michael cannot defend the version he prefers, but tries to announce the equivalence of a belief in a flat Earth and a round Earth, they should be treated equally apparently. By the way what were "the books" Michael cited? Although I do appreciate your contribution and the numbers you cited. So now I better understand what was US official line of defence on its supplies to NAZI germany. I see, instead of actually answering the problems about US oil ending up in Germany during WWII Michael simply carries on assuming it was true, but cannot actually defend the article, just change the subject. A good starting point to look a bit deeper. When and if I find something extrodinary like yours "non existent Spanish oil refinery" in Canaries I'll post it, don't worry. Look on the internet, you can find almost anything, just tell them what you want to believe and it can be supplied. Effectively none of my text makes it to the non reply. Maybe. Although unfortunately I do not have the book to decide how objective, selfconsistent and complete is it. So please tell us all when you looked at the research and facts behind the article you quoted to "decide how objective, selfconsistent and complete is it", or does that only apply to disliked facts? Geoffrey Sinclair Remove the nb for email. |
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