NATCA Going Down in Flames

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"bdl" wrote in message
oups.com...

Um. by not having controllers sleeping? If they want to sleep they
should go home. Its more conducive to sleep anyway.

Turn it around, how does it impact safety by not letting them take naps?


Letting them nap while on break makes it less likely they'll be drowsy while
on position. Is being drowsy while on position more safe or less safe?

I'll admit I don't know what the "standard" shifts are. Nor, the
turnaround between shifts. But I would assume they aren't working
doctors hours, or anything similar. Please enlighten me as to typical
work shifts.

If they are drowsy on shift, maybe they shouldn't be on shift.

On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 20:35:10 GMT, Jose
wrote:

I would argue that more professional dress inspires more professional
behavior. As an example, I'd point to the NYC "graffitti" cleanup
under Guiliani, and the corresponding crime rate drops.

I think this is oranges and grapefruit, and an example of selective
data. Guiliani did many other things at the same time, and it may well
be that it was those other things that reduced crime. What crime in ATC
are you aiming to reduce?

Turn it around, how does it impact safety by not letting them take naps?

Studies have shown that napping improves performance after the nap. (In

They are the mythical "Power Naps" which were hyped for a while. This
is the first I've heard them mentioned in several years..

They sure didn't include people like me in that study. I do not wake
quickly whether from a good night's sleep or a nap. In the morning I
roll out of bed into the "praying position" and then with the aid of
the bed and wall, work myself into a standing position. After a nap I
roll off the couch onto the floor, then climb into the praying
position with the aid of the couch.

I and others like me are a hazard to ourselves and those around us for
an hour or so after waking and we are a long way from being unique.

some political jobs, it arguably improves performance during the nap.
It is my understanding that air traffic control is a stressful job,
and that's one of the reasons scope time is limited. Anything that
would improve alertness while at the scope would be good. Naps do that
with no down side.

For *some* they do and some they don't. I'd sure hate to have to
depend on making any decisions of import for an hour or so after the
nap. Some can wake quickly when necessary, but then pay for it later
with a severe hit to performance, poor sleep patterns, or even
attitude.

For the mid shift nap to be safe you'd need to test every single
controller to see how they handled them under varying conditions.
You'd probably find about a 1/4 to a 1/3 of them did not do well for
some period after the nap.



Jose
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

bdl wrote:

Studies have shown that napping improves performance after the nap.

In the article that I read, the FAA said that the napping had a
detrimental affect on performance. It meant the controllers were
groggy when returning to the scope.

So maybe the FAA has their own study.

From what I've read, short naps are ok, but anything longer than 15-20
minutes is detrimental.

In article ,
Larry Dighera wrote:

Well, I believe Boeing and LocMart have already developed (and
deployed) modern ATC systems (probably superior to the existing FAA
stuff), so modernization could be much more rapid than if the FAA
developed and implemented something similar.

What does Boeing or LocMart have that is better or more modern than
STARS (which is being deployed now)?

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

Getting dressed in the morning (just like I
would with any commute) improves my performance during the day. I get
more things done.

When you're dressed, you can go out without any additional doings. IN a
bathrobe, going to the store (for example) requires more doing, so it
might be put off. In that sense, I agree, one can be more productive
dressed than nude.

However, we're talking about shorts, not bathrobe. Do you find that,
WHEN you get dressed, that your performance improves with a higher
standard of dress (once you are above the standard required to go to the
store)? Do you work better in a tie?

Workers who feel part of the same team should work better
than workers who don't.

Agreed. With rules like this, do you think the controllers feel like
they're on the same team as the FAA (who is making the rules)?

I would maintain that everybody operating to a
minimum standard would enhance that team.

Yes, key word "operating". I maintain that shorts do not affect how one
controls traffic. I would allow that a captain's uniform as opposed
to shorts may help for a corporate pilot, who is interfacing with the
public (the executives taking the ride), but air traffic control does
not have this kind of interface with their charges.

Are you saying that ATC as an organization has no room for any
improvement?

No. I'm saying dress is probably not high on the list.

But if the airline said [pilots] shouldn't
[take naps] as part of their operating
procedures you would agree that that would be ok right?

I suspect it would not be a good rule, especially for long flights.

Or do you think the pilots should be able
to set their own operating procedures
for their particular flight?

I did not suggest this for ATC, why do you suggest that I suggest this
for pilots?

Jose
--
There are more ways to skin a cat than there are cats.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Here is a list of newer Air Traffic Control systems. I hope this is
helpful.

The state of the art for TRACONs and RAPCONS is STARS (Standalone TRACON
Automation Replacement System). The prime contractor for the STARS program
is Raytheon, and it is now being deployed to major TRACONS around the
country. (It is already online at the new Boston TRACON and major airports
like Philadelphia, etc). This program has been much delayed and reworked,
after numerous problems, such as ignoring controllers human interface
concerns (early data block windows covered up radar information behind
them) and controllers didn't like the standard QWERTY keyboards. (too easy
to learn?) for some reason. 10 years later, this is now the TRACON system
of the future.

ARTCCs have been upgraded as well. (Acronym?) I believe the prime
contractor is/was Lockheed Martin and it used a lot of Sun Microsystems
hardware. Even before the upgrades were underway, the ASD or 'Ollie"
screen came about just to replace the aging and failing green screens from
ARTS. The ASD was kind of a bootleg program that was more grassroutes than
officially sanctioned. .

DSR - (Display System Replacment) - replaces old ARTCC displays with new
Sony high resolution color displays. Superimposes NexRad weather on
displays, modern strip printers, etc. .

ATOP - (advanced technologies and oceanic procedures) Automates manual
oceanic airspace practices. Deployed at oceanic ARTCCs, such as New York,
Boston, Anchorage, Oakland. Lockheed Martin is the prime contractor and
calls it Ocean 21 .

HOCSR (Host and Oceanic Computer System Replacement). The host computers
(at the FAA command center across the street from Dulles airport in
Herndon) have had an upgrade program too, it is managed by Lockheed Martin:

ASDE-X (Airport Surface Detection Equipment - the X is the latest version)
is the next generation ground radar, used in airports with issues with
taxiing (usually in bad visibility). At these airports, pilots are asked
to leave Mode C on when on the ground. KPVD was one of the first airports
to get this, as a result of the near disaster when a US Airways flight was
repeatedly and angrily cleared for takeoff by a controller with an attitude
(pilot rejected) after a United jet got lost in fog and had reentered the
runway.

(D-BRITE ) FAA Digital Brite Radar Indicator Tower Equipment Program.
Newer version of BRITE screens, which provide satellite towers with a basic
radar screen for limited use. I believe this is going away.

Small Tower Radar Display (Lockheed Martin) For some airports that didn't
have D-BRITE.

STARS LITE (STARS Local Integrated Tower Equipment) Radar screens for
satellite towers.

ARTS IE Newer system for VFR towers that aren't connected to a TRACON.
Receive radar information from centers, using ARSR or ASR Radar data.

TARDIS (Terminal Automated Radar Display and Information System) This is
an interesting one. A sort of bootleg cheaper radar display for satellite
towers. It hasn't been certified and there are no plans to do so. The FAA
brass wasn't too pleased that TARDIS was spreading (too cheap, quick to be
implemented, and it worked!), but influential congress people were
demanding that it be deployed towers that didn't have funds to get another
radar display. Should be replaced by STARS LITE, which is certified.

Ok an example that was probably too far afield. Are you suggesting
that the beautifcation projects had no impact for the better on the
city?

I think the beautification projects had no impact on the traffic
problems plaguing the city. They had no impact on bridge maintanance.
They had no impact on water quality. They had no impact on corruption.

They made the city prettier, in some places, by some people's opinions.
Maybe this increased tourism, or encouraged businesses to stay rather
than leave. It might have had an effect on rents.

What sort of nap? Length of nap? Location of nap? How much napping
per time on shift? Whas the study specific to the ATC function?
Please provide the data. If its true that napping will help our
controllers, then the FAA should enforce naps during break times.
Provide cots and blankies and teddy bears.

I don't have the paper in front of me. I read about it some time ago;
the context was office and management jobs, computer programming, stuff
like that. Short naps were sufficient, but not too short. (something
like 30 minutes, IIRC)

Jose
--
There are more ways to skin a cat than there are cats.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

In the article that I read, the FAA said that the napping had a
detrimental affect on performance. It meant the controllers were
groggy when returning to the scope.

So maybe the FAA has their own study.

If they do, I'm unaware of it. However, length of nap was important, as
well as when (and how) they were woken up. Being woken up in some
phases of sleep is better than others.

Jose
--
There are more ways to skin a cat than there are cats.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

They sure didn't include people like me in that study. I do not wake
quickly whether from a good night's sleep or a nap.

Would you choose to take a nap? There is some self selection involved too.

Jose
--
There are more ways to skin a cat than there are cats.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"bdl" wrote in message
oups.com...

I'll admit I don't know what the "standard" shifts are. Nor, the
turnaround between shifts. But I would assume they aren't working
doctors hours, or anything similar. Please enlighten me as to typical
work shifts.


No, they're not working doctors hours. If they were working doctors hours
they'd probably be provided beds for naps like doctors are.

I believe most facilities still work on a seven week rotation. Two evening
shifts, followed by two day shifts, followed by two days off, then repeat.
That's six days so your two days off advance by one day each week. It's
juggled a bit when the two days off are on a weekend so that there's two
natural weekends off in a row. That's the schedule for a facility that
closes at night. At 24 hour facilities you'll get a day-mid. Come in at
about six AM and then back that same day about 10 PM.



If they are drowsy on shift, maybe they shouldn't be on shift.


Agreed. What solution would you recommend? Allow naps while on break?
Send drowsy employees home on leave? Fire them?