NATCA Going Down in Flames

"bdl" wrote in message
oups.com...

I don't. I was alluding to controllers.


So it's just a guess on your part. It's not on mine. I do work on the
radio. I am a controller. I find I perform better when I'm comfortable and
I'm more comfortable working in a glass box on a sunny summer day when I'm
wearing a nice pair of shorts.

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
I would suggest they get sleep before coming into work.

What if they do and they're drowsy anyway?

What is the penalty for showing up for your shift incapacitated?

Utilizing the sick policy if they don't.


That's not permitted.

Really? What constitutes sick then? Do you have to have a doctor's
note? Does a headache count? From articles I read, NY controllers
were using the sick policy to a great extent so obviously some people
are incapacitated enough to not show up for their shift.

Maybe. But what is the problem with napping while on a break anyway?

The controlling authority (now) says its forbidden.

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
So it's just a guess on your part. It's not on mine. I do work on the
radio. I am a controller. I find I perform better when I'm comfortable and
I'm more comfortable working in a glass box on a sunny summer day when I'm
wearing a nice pair of shorts.

Sounds like we need to fix the A/C.

"bdl" wrote in message
ps.com...

What is the penalty for showing up for your shift incapacitated?


Unrelated to the topic.



Really?


Really.



The controlling authority (now) says its forbidden.


True, but not an answer to the question.

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
Really.

You didn't answer the second part. What does constitute sick?

The controlling authority (now) says its forbidden.


True, but not an answer to the question.

Yes it is.

"bdl" wrote in message
ps.com...

Sounds like we need to fix the A/C.


It's not broken, it's just not up to the task. Should we spend your tax
dollars to upgrade it so that controllers can be comfortable and efficient
while wearing pants or should we just allow them to dress comfortably under
the present conditions?

"bdl" wrote in message
ps.com...

You didn't answer the second part. What does constitute sick?


Did I really need to? You don't understand the word "sick"?



Yes it is.


No it isn't. An answer would be the reason for the new policy.

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"bdl" wrote in message
ps.com...

Sounds like we need to fix the A/C.


It's not broken, it's just not up to the task. Should we spend your tax
dollars to upgrade it so that controllers can be comfortable and efficient
while wearing pants or should we just allow them to dress comfortably under
the present conditions?

Do you wear shorts in the winter?

On Wed, 13 Sep 2006 14:00:50 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote in
. net:


"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
.. .

Well, I believe Boeing and LocMart have already developed (and
deployed) modern ATC systems (probably superior to the existing FAA
stuff), so modernization could be much more rapid than if the FAA
developed and implemented something similar.


What have they developed and deployed?

From Boeing's web site http://www.boeing.com/phantom/ast/atm.html, I
was unable to find mention of their having deployed anything yet, but
you are welcome to research it.


I know Lockheed Martin built Common ARTS under an FAA contract,

It looks like LocMart did that in 2001 or befo


http://www.lockheedmartin.com/wms/fi...&ti=0&sc =400
LOCKHEED MARTIN CONTINUES SUCCESSFUL COMMON ARTS INSTALLATIONS
ROCKVILLE, MD, December 3, 2001 -- Lockheed Martin Air Traffic
Management completed its 138th consecutive on- or
ahead-of-schedule installation of the world's most advanced
terminal air traffic control system with activation of its Common
Automated Radar Terminal System (ARTS) at the FAA's facility in
Minneapolis, Minnesota ...



http://www.lockheedmartin.com/wms/fi...&ti=0&sc =400
LOCKHEED MARTIN CONTINUES SUCCESSFUL COMMON ARTS INSTALLATIONS
ROCKVILLE, MD, May 14, 2001 -- The world's most advanced terminal
air traffic control system is in service at the nation's busiest
hub airport. Lockheed Martin Air Traffic Management announced
today that its Common Automated Radar Terminal System (ARTS) is
operational at the FAA's new state-of-the-art Air Traffic Control
facility in Atlanta, Ga. The new Atlanta Terminal Radar Approach
Control (TRACON) facility went into service at 4:35 a.m., April 7,
and was fully commissioned less than 72 hours later on April 10.

"As the terminal automation and display system provider, we salute
the FAA's achievement," says Don Antonucci, president, Lockheed
Martin Air Traffic Management. "The FAA professionals in the
Southern Region transitioned the nation's busiest hub airport from
the Hartsfield TRACON to the new Atlanta TRACON without any
degradation in air traffic control systems or services. We salute
their fine work and we're equally proud that this installation
continues Lockheed Martin's unbroken record of on-time and
on-budget performance on Common ARTS."


Here 're LocMart's ATC products:

http://www.lockheedmartin.com/wms/fi...i=13214&sc=400


And a few actual deployments:


http://www.lockheedmartin.com/wms/fi...&t i=0&sc=400
Taiwan Air Traffic Control Automation System
ATCAS
DESCRIPTION:

This system was commissioned into full operational service in July
1996. It provides fully integrated, around-the-clock en route,
terminal and tower automation functions at Taiwan's four busiest
air traffic control centers. The Taiwan Air Traffic Control
Automation System (ATCAS) is based on proven U.S. and U.K.
systems, which were modified to take advantage of the latest air
traffic control display technology, and customized for the Taiwan
CAA's unique requirements.



http://www.lockheedmartin.com/wms/fi...&ti= 0&sc=400
New Zealand Air Traffic Control System
DESCRIPTION:

Under a 10-year partnership agreement with Airways New Zealand,
Lockheed Martin replaced the current New Zealand air traffic
control system with its SkyLine® ATM product and established a
technology center of excellence, providing an Asia/Pacific
software development and operational testing center in
Christchurch, New Zealand. In addition, the partners agreed to
jointly pursue global opportunities in airspace management and
communications, Navigation and Surveillance/Air Traffic Management
(CNS/ATM) technology modernization. The partnership agreement was
signed in May 2000.



http://www.lockheedmartin.com/wms/fi...&ti= 0&sc=400
Nanchang and Hangzhou Automation Systems
DESCRIPTION:

Lockheed Martin is responsible for two new terminal approach
control systems installed for the Civil Aviation Administration of
China (CAAC) at the new Changbei Airport in Nanchang, in the
People's Republic of China. The contract, which was awarded to
Lockheed Martin in April 1999, was for two air traffic control
automation systems - one, to be installed at the new Changbei
Airport in Nanchang, and a second to be installed at the new
Xiaoshan Airport in Hangzhou. The Hangzhou system will undergo
integration and acceptance tests in July 2000, when the new ATC
facility is completed. The two systems are based on Lockheed
Martin's SkyLine® family of ATC systems.


And Raytheon is deploying STARS:

http://www.raytheon.com/products/stars_faa/

http://www.raytheon.com/products/ste...s01_052895.pdf
The STARS system is more reliable than the ARTS system, which has
no backup. STARS is composed of two separate, fully redundant
automation systems that are running in parallel, eliminating
common-mode failures and providing controllers with instantaneous
backup service.

The FSL (Full Service Level) system is based on Raytheon’s
AutoTrac air traffic management system while the ESL (Emergency
Service Level) is based on Raytheon’s TracView automation product.
Both of these air traffic management products are in use today by
civil aviation agencies throughout the world, including Amsterdam
and Frankfurt, two of the largest terminal area control facilities
in the world.


http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/9_24.../185159-1.html
June 12, 2003
STAR Light, STAR Bright
By Arturo Weiss, Newswriter

FAA Commissions STARS In Philly...
On Monday, air traffic controllers in Philadelphia officially
began "STARS gazing." That's when the FAA commissioned the
Raytheon-built Standard Terminal Automation Replacement System
(STARS) ...


But the IG finds fault with FAA:
http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/9_27.../185255-1.html


and I'm aware that Boeing has proposed new systems but I'm unaware of anything
they've got operating in the field.

I wasn't able to find any reference to actual Air Traffic Management
deployments on Boeing's web site.


You may be correct about the ultimate cost, but initially the
contractor would have to propose something reasonably priced to win
the bidding competition.


Why would privatization require any new equipment?

Here's what Boeing is proposing:
http://www.boeing.com/phantom/ast/atm_product.html

It looks like it will be satellite based.

http://www.boeing.com/phantom/ast/61605_06FutureNow.pdf
As the world’s largest aerospace company Boeing is committed to
ensuring continued growth of aviation and is developing and
testing advanced concepts to help transform the air traffic
management (ATM) system. The accompanying diagram depicts the
future ATM system and Boeing’s key initiatives to achieve that
goal.

That's got to be a significant cost.

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
Did I really need to? You don't understand the word "sick"?

Yes, you do, since you said that incapacitation do to drowsiness was
not an acceptable excuse for sick leave.


Yes it is.


No it isn't. An answer would be the reason for the new policy.

They provided it. They felt that controllers could be groggy coming
out of their nap onto their shift.

It doesn't matter what their reason is though. They set the rules.
Why are you so anti-authority?