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SeeYou Mobile with SN10B data



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 27th 08, 05:35 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
kirk.stant
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Posts: 1,260
Default SeeYou Mobile with SN10B data

Does anyone have any experience driving SeeYouMobile from an SN10B,
using both the GPS data and the vario/wind/air data that the SN10 can
now transmit to a PDA?

Wondering if it is worth the trouble to have a new SN10 wiring harness
made to work with my PDA.

TIA,

Kirk
66
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  #2  
Old October 28th 08, 12:48 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
JJ Sinclair
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Posts: 388
Default SeeYou Mobile with SN10B data

Why would you want a PDA when you have an SN10? This moving map
business is over rated and puts your eyes inside the cockpit. All I
want and need, is the heading and distance to the turn-point and the
same to the nearest landable point. The SN10 gives me that in a quick
glance then my head is back outside where it belongs. Lots of good
stuff going on out there, besides not running into someone. Is the
other guy outclimbing me? If he is, I'd better move my circle over a
tad. Hey, there's a red tail over there.......lets join him. Hmmmm,
the ripples on the water indicate a north wind, that smoke from the
rice stubble indicates a west wind.........bet there's a shear around
here somewhere. I keep my eyes where they belong.
:) JJ
You done good on the SN10 wind program, Dave.

kirk.stant wrote:
Does anyone have any experience driving SeeYouMobile from an SN10B,
using both the GPS data and the vario/wind/air data that the SN10 can
now transmit to a PDA?

Wondering if it is worth the trouble to have a new SN10 wiring harness
made to work with my PDA.

TIA,

Kirk
66

  #3  
Old October 28th 08, 02:00 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Big Wings
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 33
Default SeeYou Mobile with SN10B data

If you flew your glider in South East England, where airspace is
unbelievably complex, you would want a moving map showing controlled
airspace.

From any significant height the Mark I eyeball cannot tell you within two
or three miles where you are relative to airspace which does not follow
ground features.


At 12:48 28 October 2008, JJ Sinclair wrote:
Why would you want a PDA when you have an SN10? This moving map
business is over rated and puts your eyes inside the cockpit. All I
want and need, is the heading and distance to the turn-point and the
same to the nearest landable point. The SN10 gives me that in a quick
glance then my head is back outside where it belongs. Lots of good
stuff going on out there, besides not running into someone. Is the
other guy outclimbing me? If he is, I'd better move my circle over a
tad. Hey, there's a red tail over there.......lets join him. Hmmmm,
the ripples on the water indicate a north wind, that smoke from the
rice stubble indicates a west wind.........bet there's a shear around
here somewhere. I keep my eyes where they belong.
:) JJ
You done good on the SN10 wind program, Dave.

kirk.stant wrote:
Does anyone have any experience driving SeeYouMobile from an SN10B,
using both the GPS data and the vario/wind/air data that the SN10 can
now transmit to a PDA?

Wondering if it is worth the trouble to have a new SN10 wiring harness
made to work with my PDA.

TIA,

Kirk
66


  #4  
Old October 28th 08, 07:00 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
toad
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 229
Default SeeYou Mobile with SN10B data

On Oct 28, 8:48*am, JJ Sinclair wrote:
Why *would you want a PDA when you have an SN10? This moving map
business is over rated and puts your eyes inside the cockpit. All I
want and need, is the heading and distance to the turn-point and the
same to the nearest landable point. The SN10 gives me that in a quick
glance then my head is back outside where it belongs. Lots of good
stuff going on out there, besides not running into someone. Is the
other guy outclimbing me? If he is, I'd better move my circle over a
tad. Hey, there's a red tail over there.......lets join him. Hmmmm,
the ripples on the water indicate a north wind, that smoke from the
rice stubble indicates a west wind.........bet there's a shear around
here somewhere. I keep my eyes where they belong.
:) JJ
You done good on the SN10 wind program, Dave.


No, one glance at the moving map takes the same amount of time as
looking at the SN10 to get the same info. Maybe less time.

Todd Smith
3S
  #5  
Old October 28th 08, 07:54 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
kirk.stant
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,260
Default SeeYou Mobile with SN10B data

On Oct 28, 7:48*am, JJ Sinclair wrote:
Why *would you want a PDA when you have an SN10?


Sorry, JJ, have to disagree with you on this one, big time. Do you
fly with a sectional? How much time does it take heads down to find a
suitable airport while scratching down low at some new contest
location? The SN10s moving map is too basic, and can require too much
knob twisting to get to the information desired. I use my SN10 for
what it is best at - racing data, accurate winds, final glides,
thermal inforation, vario. The moving map is my backup if my PDA
croaks. I use my PDA as a digital sectional, with the task drawn on,
and all landable fields inrange highlighted, and some data displayed
that is not available from the SN10.

And it only takes a glance to use, instead of trying to fish out the
sectional, unfold it, find out you have the wrong side, the proceed to
thermal IMC with a cockpit full of paper! No thanks! BTDT!

I do agree that the trick is to only go heads down and use the magic
when necessary - but heck, that includes fancy varios and even the
airspeed indicator! But I'm sure you used to preach that to your
students when you were and IP, just as I did as an IWSO, back when we
flew diesel jets with steam-powered radars....

Plus, if all the newbies have fancy PDAs in their cockpits, it makes
it easier for us old clowns to pass them while they are heads down
playing with their toys!

Cheers!

Kirk
66
  #6  
Old October 28th 08, 09:44 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
JJ Sinclair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 388
Default SeeYou Mobile with SN10B data

I use the 'options' page on my SN10, keep it set on the nearest
landable field (and next nearest landable). What it tells me is
exactly what I need to know, distance and altitude needed to get
there. No need to be looking at a sectional. When I ask the local PDA
drivers, simple questions like; how long you been on course or what's
your speed so far.................their stumpen dor an answer! Guess
what I should be asking is; What are you looking for in a PDA that
isn't already on your SN10?
JJ

kirk.stant wrote:
On Oct 28, 7:48�am, JJ Sinclair wrote:
Why �would you want a PDA when you have an SN10?


Sorry, JJ, have to disagree with you on this one, big time. Do you
fly with a sectional? How much time does it take heads down to find a
suitable airport while scratching down low at some new contest
location? The SN10s moving map is too basic, and can require too much
knob twisting to get to the information desired. I use my SN10 for
what it is best at - racing data, accurate winds, final glides,
thermal inforation, vario. The moving map is my backup if my PDA
croaks. I use my PDA as a digital sectional, with the task drawn on,
and all landable fields inrange highlighted, and some data displayed
that is not available from the SN10.

And it only takes a glance to use, instead of trying to fish out the
sectional, unfold it, find out you have the wrong side, the proceed to
thermal IMC with a cockpit full of paper! No thanks! BTDT!

I do agree that the trick is to only go heads down and use the magic
when necessary - but heck, that includes fancy varios and even the
airspeed indicator! But I'm sure you used to preach that to your
students when you were and IP, just as I did as an IWSO, back when we
flew diesel jets with steam-powered radars....

Plus, if all the newbies have fancy PDAs in their cockpits, it makes
it easier for us old clowns to pass them while they are heads down
playing with their toys!

Cheers!

Kirk
66

  #7  
Old October 28th 08, 11:01 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Greenwell
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,096
Default SeeYou Mobile with SN10B data

JJ Sinclair wrote:
I use the 'options' page on my SN10, keep it set on the nearest
landable field (and next nearest landable). What it tells me is
exactly what I need to know, distance and altitude needed to get
there. No need to be looking at a sectional.


Stick with the SN10 if you are flying a familiar area. But, if you fly
like I do in *UNfamiliar* areas about half the time each year, the extra
information I get with a PDA and SeeYou Mobile is invaluable. I'm
picking out my course as I go (love the OLC!), so "situational
awareness" is my prime need.

When I ask the local PDA
drivers, simple questions like; how long you been on course or what's
your speed so far.................their stumpen dor an answer! Guess
what I should be asking is; What are you looking for in a PDA that
isn't already on your SN10?


I rarely fly tasks, so knowing instantly how long I've been on course
(course? I don't need no stinking course!) has no value (two button
clicks and I can read, however). I just fly in one direction until I
realize I might not make it back, then I turn around. And speed? I just
fly as fast as I can without getting into trouble. I don't need to know
what the speed is.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

* Updated! "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* New Jan '08 - sections on Mode S, TPAS, ADS-B, Flarm, more

* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org
  #8  
Old October 29th 08, 01:31 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Darryl Ramm
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,403
Default SeeYou Mobile with SN10B data

On Oct 28, 4:01*pm, Eric Greenwell wrote:
JJ Sinclair wrote:
I use the 'options' page on my SN10, keep it set on the nearest
landable field (and next nearest landable). What it tells me is
exactly what I need to know, distance and altitude needed to get
there. No need to be looking at a sectional.


Stick with the SN10 if you are flying a familiar area. But, if you fly
like I do in *UNfamiliar* areas about half the time each year, the extra
information I get with a PDA and SeeYou Mobile is invaluable. I'm
picking out my course as I go (love the OLC!), so "situational
awareness" is my prime need.

When I ask the local PDA
drivers, simple questions like; how long you been on course or what's
your speed so far.................their stumpen dor an answer! Guess
what I should be asking is; What are you looking for in a PDA that
isn't already on your SN10?


I rarely fly tasks, so knowing instantly how long I've been on course
(course? I don't need no stinking course!) has no value (two button
clicks and I can read, however). I just fly in one direction until I
realize I might not make it back, then I turn around. And speed? I just
fly as fast as I can without getting into trouble. I don't need to know
what the speed is.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

* Updated! "Transponders in Sailplanes"http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* * * New Jan '08 - sections on Mode S, TPAS, ADS-B, Flarm, more

* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" atwww.motorglider.org


And you don't need to worry about landout options because you fly one
of those noisy [email protected]#$ motorgliders. (just channeling JJ).

The biggest problem with PDAs IMHO is lack of daylight visibility. In
my mid-40's its a real issue. At JJ's age... ah stick with the SN10.

I'm addicted to the capabilities of SeeYou Mobile. Folks who like the
SN-10 really seem to love it, but I've had frustrating experience with
SN-10 in rental gliders like the trying to edit an active task - all
driven by completely not knowing what I was doing. The ability to
bring my "world" with me all loaded up on a PDA in my own glider or in
a rental glider is a big plus. The inability to take the SN-10 home
and play with it and get it all configured etc. was an issue for me,
and I pulled one out of a glider I purchased.

Anyhow as usual style nobody has helped Kirk out... but are you sure
that SeeYou Mobile supports the SN10 wind calculations? My (sketchy)
understanding is that the SN10 can speak extended sentences with
calculated wind data but I'm not sure SeeYou Mobile will do anything
with that. I don't think the SN10 transmits TAS data that SeeYou
Mobile would use to improve it's own internal wind calculations.
That's at least how it works with the Cambridge 302 (SeeYou Mobile
does a great job enhancing the wind calculations with the C-302 TAS
data but ignores the wind calculations from the C-302). But if the
SN-10 is not transmitting TAS data maybe SeeYou does use the SN-10
wind. Paging Dave Nadler...

I expect (hope?) the Naviter guys would primarily want to do their own
wind calculations using TAS data from external devices. This should
give end-users better consistency across data sources and leave them
as developers a bit more in of their own application. The only
exception might be in flight computer like the LX-7007 that can
leverage a magnetometer for wind calculations. I have no idea what
they do there.

The user forums at Naviter may be a better place to get help.

Regards


Darryl
  #9  
Old October 29th 08, 07:54 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Andrej Kolar[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default SeeYou Mobile with SN10B data

Anyhow as usual style nobody has helped Kirk out...

Thanks for putting it back on track.

I expect (hope?) the Naviter guys would primarily want to do their
own wind


Correct. We all know that the wind in SN-10 is great. But there is no
reason to duplicate this wind on SeeYou Mobile if you already have it
on the SN-10 conveniently. We try to do our own thing from available
data. AFAIK true or indicated airspeed is not available in SN-10 NMEA
output which means we can't compute the wind in straight flight when
connected to the SN-10. Knowing the limitations of your gear it may
still be beneficial to be able to compare two completely different
methods of computing the wind in a thermal for example.

Back to the original question:
Wondering if it is worth the trouble to have a new SN10 wiring harness
made to work with my PDA.


Due to the lack of TAS/IAS in SN-10's NMEA the only benefit is the
vario data that comes from the SN-10. This data will give you better
Thermal Vario (VarT) and much better Thermal Assistant analysis if you
use these two features. If you don't there little or no benefit
compared to being connected to the Volkslogger (assuming that you
connect SeeYou Mobile to VL at present).

The user forums at Naviter may be a better place to get help.


True. Posting there helps other pilots answer their own questions
while we are away flying.

Andrej
  #10  
Old October 29th 08, 12:30 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 193
Default SeeYou Mobile with SN10B data

On Oct 29, 12:54*am, Andrej Kolar wrote:
Anyhow as usual style nobody has helped Kirk out...


Knowing the limitations of your gear it may
still be beneficial to be able to compare two completely different
methods of computing the wind in a thermal for example.


I find this comparison quite beneficial - particularly on final glides
were a "second opinion" on required altitude gives me some comfort
that I am on track. I personally use a 302 with WinPilot and an
LX-7000 so I have two redundant systems with only the battery wiring
as a common failure mode. Normally I use WinPilot for task management
(except for a custom Glideplan map with all the turnpoints overlaid
promenently for use in picking MAT turnpoints so I can minimize screen-
poking time). The LX I use for a live list of the closest landable
spots (here I wish I could sort by arrival altitude rather than
distance because distance alone is an insufficient metric for
alternates in the mountains and I find myself comparing coser-in
alternates to find the one with the biggest margin - can you say
Hurricane Mesa?). On final glides I compare both instruments to ensure
against differences in wind calculations, or operator error. I
occasionally find a mis-set McCready value or wing loading this way.

I think the LX 5000/7000 series also pass TAS like the 302 - not that
it would help in Kirk's situation.


9B

 




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