DG-300 or LS-3?

On 4/23/2010 5:39 PM, noel.wade wrote:
On Apr 23, 5:04 pm, wrote:

My 2-cents worth..............coming from a guy who flies a 13m
glider!

Yeah, but even your 13M ship has a flap handle... I want one of
those!! I feel so inadequate without one... ;-)

--Noel
P.S. I slacked off at work today and correlated data from Idaflieg and
various Johnson Reports. At 80 knots the DG-300 achieves a glide-
ratio of about 27:1. By comparison, the LS-3 can get 31:1.


That is a difference of only 30' of altitude each mile.



When
Moffat and Johnson and others wrote a lot of their reports back in the
1970's and 1980's, the idea of high wing-loadings for faster
competition flying was not yet in-vogue... so they didn't cover it
much. But in strong conditions (i.e. Ephrata or other competition
sites in the western USA), the benefits of a heavier flapped ship like
the LS-3 are pretty significant (on paper at least).

On Apr 23, 5:47*pm, Greg Arnold wrote:

That is a difference of only 30' of altitude each mile.


Greg -

Yes, it does seem like a paltry difference in altitude-per-mile.

But when you look at it in terms of competition flying, it equates to
a good 5 - 7 knots faster during inter-thermal cruising, for the same
sink-rate.

If you figure that 70% of a task is spent in cruise, that's a nice
advantage! Flying 85 knots versus 80 knots yields a 6% speed
difference in cruise. If you assume a similar climb rate (I know,
they may not be similar) and you assume that you spend 70% of your
flight in cruise, then the total performance advantage is 4%. But the
handicap difference between the DG-300 (0.95) and the LS-3 (0.937) is
only 1.4%

I know that the pilot matters more than the ship. I come from the
world of auto-racing and have experience in competition where bad
people think that fancy equipment will solve all of their
deficiencies. That's not the issue here... The issue for me is
whether its worth it to get the good ship *now* and have it for
several years, versus "practicing" with the DG-300 for a few years and
then moving over once I am "close" to winning...

--Noel

Noel:

Screw the glider....

Get the one that has the better trailer!


Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA

If I were purchasing one of these two gliders, it would depend how
well I
fit in the cockpit, auto hook-ups, good trailer, instrumentation. If
you plan
to use your trailer a lot to store your glider after each flight and
to travel
to other good soaring locations, make sure you have a good trailer and
that all the equipment is in good shape. The LS3 wings are heavy and
a one-man-rigger should be considered.

Randy

http://talihinasoaring.com/

On Apr 23, 12:54*pm, "noel.wade" wrote:

What would _you_ consider to be the better ship to own? *If you owned
one of them, would you sell it to get the other?

Ondulation nonwithstanding, I'd go with the DG300. It's a newer
design, it has autoconnects, and I think that its cockpit has a bit
better crashworthiness than the LS3.

Thanks, Bob K.

"Myles" wrote in message
...
I'm curious, too. Ondulation isn't in my OED.

It wasn't in your Original Equipment Delivered? ;-)

I'll be quiet, now! :-)
--
Jim in NC

Noel,
First of all, I have owned a grand total of one glider(DG303) and
done one contest, so I may not be the greybeard you want to hear
from! If you are planning on flying in sports class, the DG300 has
the better handicap(at least for OLC, 106 vs. 108), so if you fly even
with an LS3 you will win the day.
The responses on the thread have indicated years of experience and
multiple glider ownership. My gut feeling, from observing pilots and
gliders on fun days and contest days, is that you and I would
probably have to move up to ASW27 or comparable to get to the next
level in performance. Just fly the heck out of your DG300 until then
and have fun. I really feel it comes down to experience and comfort
level in varying conditions and terrain rather than equipment unless
you are at the top level.
Is it possible that I got a letter from you when you were searching
for a DG300/303?
Good luck in your quest, and I echo some other posters here
regarding the auto hookup on the LS3 elevator. And I concur with you,
loved the LS4, almost bought one!

Dean "GO"

Bob,

What's an "ondulation"? Is it just a mis-spelling of "undulation", or
is it some other kind of animal entirely?

-John

On Apr 24, 1:27 am, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
Ondulation nonwithstanding, I'd go with the DG300. It's a newer
design, it has autoconnects, and I think that its cockpit has a bit
better crashworthiness than the LS3.

Thanks, Bob K.

I'm curious, too. Ondulation isn't in my OED.

Myles


On Apr 24, 2:28*pm, jcarlyle wrote:
Bob,

What's an "ondulation"? Is it just a mis-spelling of "undulation", or
is it some other kind of animal entirely?

-John

On Apr 24, 1:27 am, Bob Kuykendall wrote:



Ondulation nonwithstanding, I'd go with the DG300. It's a newer
design, it has autoconnects, and I think that its cockpit has a bit
better crashworthiness than the LS3.

Thanks, Bob K.

On Apr 24, 7:58*am, "Morgans" wrote:
"Myles" wrote in message

...
I'm curious, too. *Ondulation isn't in my OED.

It wasn't in your Original Equipment Delivered? *;-)

I'll be quiet, now! *:-)
--
Jim in NC

Go to the DG web site:
http://www.dg-flugzeugbau.de
Select your favorite language, as long as it's English.
In the search box, enter 'Ondulation"
there you will find the special lift-enhancing feature that some
DG300's have.

Brian