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OLV GPS 36 approach question
Went out seeking some IMC time today. Severe clear at my home airport,
so took a trip from KMBO (Madison MS) to KOLV (Olive Branch MS) Early morning clouds at OLV was 500 overcast, so I figured by the time I got there, it would at least be broken. It wasn't the clouds that was restricting the visibility so much as the haze. 2 mile forward viz at best on my final approach. Memphis Approach asked what approach I wanted and I elected GPS RWY 36 approach. I was at 4000 feet and about 10 miles out I was cleared to the NOCAP initial approach fix, My instructions were descend and maintain 2,100, cleared for the GPS36 approach. My heading was 006 to the fix so it was as easy as it gets to to intercepting the final approach course. When I was looking at the profile part, before NOCAP I was to maintain 2800. So rather then descend to 2100, I maintained 2800 til I got to NOCAP. I didn't say anything / question the approach controller since the frequency was wall to wall traffic, but I didn't want to hit anything poking out of the ground either. What is the overriding factor in this case (besides my PIC decision of maintaining 2800)? I can see where the controller got the 2100 figure which was the final approach fix step down altitude, but I also didn't want to cause a traffic conflict by maintaining 2800. So, I figured I'd have a better chance at 2800 then 2100 as things poking out of the ground won't move out of my way. Was I correct in maintaining 2800 before the IAF or is the controller allowed to clear me below a minimum dictated by an approach chart? Is a ASR in order or did I mess up somewhere? Allen |
#2
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OLV GPS 36 approach question
A Lieberma wrote:
Went out seeking some IMC time today. Severe clear at my home airport, so took a trip from KMBO (Madison MS) to KOLV (Olive Branch MS) Early morning clouds at OLV was 500 overcast, so I figured by the time I got there, it would at least be broken. It wasn't the clouds that was restricting the visibility so much as the haze. 2 mile forward viz at best on my final approach. Memphis Approach asked what approach I wanted and I elected GPS RWY 36 approach. I was at 4000 feet and about 10 miles out I was cleared to the NOCAP initial approach fix, My instructions were descend and maintain 2,100, cleared for the GPS36 approach. My heading was 006 to the fix so it was as easy as it gets to to intercepting the final approach course. When I was looking at the profile part, before NOCAP I was to maintain 2800. So rather then descend to 2100, I maintained 2800 til I got to NOCAP. I didn't say anything / question the approach controller since the frequency was wall to wall traffic, but I didn't want to hit anything poking out of the ground either. What is the overriding factor in this case (besides my PIC decision of maintaining 2800)? I can see where the controller got the 2100 figure which was the final approach fix step down altitude, but I also didn't want to cause a traffic conflict by maintaining 2800. So, I figured I'd have a better chance at 2800 then 2100 as things poking out of the ground won't move out of my way. Was I correct in maintaining 2800 before the IAF or is the controller allowed to clear me below a minimum dictated by an approach chart? Is a ASR in order or did I mess up somewhere? Allen Chances are about 100% that the controller could vector you at 2,100. There is an abundance of regulatory and training information about vectors to an approach. |
#3
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OLV GPS 36 approach question
On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 22:15:07 GMT, A Lieberma wrote:
Went out seeking some IMC time today. Severe clear at my home airport, so took a trip from KMBO (Madison MS) to KOLV (Olive Branch MS) Early morning clouds at OLV was 500 overcast, so I figured by the time I got there, it would at least be broken. It wasn't the clouds that was restricting the visibility so much as the haze. 2 mile forward viz at best on my final approach. Memphis Approach asked what approach I wanted and I elected GPS RWY 36 approach. I was at 4000 feet and about 10 miles out I was cleared to the NOCAP initial approach fix, My instructions were descend and maintain 2,100, cleared for the GPS36 approach. My heading was 006 to the fix so it was as easy as it gets to to intercepting the final approach course. When I was looking at the profile part, before NOCAP I was to maintain 2800. So rather then descend to 2100, I maintained 2800 til I got to NOCAP. I didn't say anything / question the approach controller since the frequency was wall to wall traffic, but I didn't want to hit anything poking out of the ground either. What is the overriding factor in this case (besides my PIC decision of maintaining 2800)? I can see where the controller got the 2100 figure which was the final approach fix step down altitude, but I also didn't want to cause a traffic conflict by maintaining 2800. So, I figured I'd have a better chance at 2800 then 2100 as things poking out of the ground won't move out of my way. Was I correct in maintaining 2800 before the IAF or is the controller allowed to clear me below a minimum dictated by an approach chart? Is a ASR in order or did I mess up somewhere? Allen From what you describe, I think you should file an ASRS report. You wrote that the controller instructed you to descend and maintain 2100', yet you did not do so, nor did you question him. You could write in the ASRS report that you did not question him because it of radio frequency congestion. On the other hand, since you started at 4000', you could also state that you were just making a "gradual" descent :-). Your impression as to where the controller got the 2100 figure from may be wrong. He might have been looking at an MVA chart, which we as pilots do not have access to. Unless I were familiar with the area, I probably would have done what you did. Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA) |
#4
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OLV GPS 36 approach question
Sam Spade wrote in news:iBbBg.520$0F5.397@fed1read04:
Chances are about 100% that the controller could vector you at 2,100. There is an abundance of regulatory and training information about vectors to an approach. Help me a little Sam on your reply as I am not quite sure I understand. :-) I was cleared for the approach, not vectored so the navigation was put on me. Based on the approach plate, from where I was coming from, within 30 miles I am to maintain 2800 unless I am misunderstanding something? Allen |
#5
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OLV GPS 36 approach question
"A Lieberma" wrote: I can see where the controller got the 2100 figure which was the final approach fix step down altitude I'll bet it was the local MVA. Controllers do not usually have much information handy about outlying airports' approaches. Was I correct in maintaining 2800 before the IAF or is the controller allowed to clear me below a minimum dictated by an approach chart? Are you sure the controller didn't say "maintain *at or above* 2100..."? The controller probably had no clue about the altitudes on the approach plate, but did know the MVA in that area, and so included it in the clearance. http://tinyurl.com/jul8f Is a ASR in order or did I mess up somewhere? No to both. -- Dan C172RG at BFM |
#6
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OLV GPS 36 approach question
Was I correct in maintaining 2800 before the IAF or is the
controller allowed to clear me below a minimum dictated by an approach chart? I often fly this same approach. On occasion, a controller will give me a lower altitude than published, but when I say, "Skyhawk 1234X requests 2800 to comply with the procedure", they always give it to me. Your controller made a mistake and you should have corrected it. His instruction to descend and maintain 2,100 was an order, and technically you were wrong to ignore it. BTW, MVA in that area is probably 2,000 feet, so you were safe at 2,100, but not in compliance with the procedure. Controllers make mistakes like this *all the time*, and you should be spring-loaded to deal with it in a polite way. |
#7
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OLV GPS 36 approach question
Controllers do not usually have much information handy about
outlying airports' approaches. This airport is only 10 miles from the Memphis Class B Airport, even though it's in MS. At one time, this was the busiest airport in all of Mississippi, due to flight training activities. The controllers are intimately familiar with the approaches into this airport and most of them know that the initial segments require 2,800. |
#8
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OLV GPS 36 approach question
Greg Esres wrote in
: Your controller made a mistake and you should have corrected it. His instruction to descend and maintain 2,100 was an order, and technically you were wrong to ignore it. Appreciate your feedback Dan, I kinda knew that I was not in the right by not complying, but not being spring loaded as you said I should have been, I didn't want to cause any commotion on the airwaves, as my goal was to fly the plane with the hopes I could have gotten a clarification, but the frequency was really congested. Even though I have had my IFR ticket for 2 years, every flight feels like my first :-) I didn't have the airport in sight due to forward viz being so low so I had to stick with the numbers in front of me. Allen |
#9
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OLV GPS 36 approach question
Greg Esres wrote in
news This airport is only 10 miles from the Memphis Class B Airport, even though it's in MS. At one time, this was the busiest airport in all of Mississippi, due to flight training activities. Unfortunately the flight school no longer operates out of OLV per airport personel, so traffic has been reduced substantially! Sure was a pleasure not to fight merging into the pattern though, as I was up here before the tower was built and I was told it's not unusual to have 4 to 6 planes in the pattern! Allen |
#10
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OLV GPS 36 approach question
Even though I have had my IFR ticket for 2 years, every flight feels
like my first :-) Perfectly understandable. Unless you fly profesionally, it takes quite a long time years-wise to have encountered and digested most types of situations. I fly the approaches in this area over and over again with students, so these approaches are more mine than the controller's. I'm used to telling them how I want to fly them. I doubt the controller even noticed that you didn't descend to the altitude he gave you, or he would have said something. |
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