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#21
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"Rick Folkers" wrote in message news:AKx_b.1212$Ri6.512@lakeread04... Art, that is just BS. There are times and ways to complain. And there are times and ways to explain to subordinates. Anybody who thinks they are above explanations was a sorry excuse for an officer. That was what I used to call an "Imperial Officer", one who was more aware of the privileges of being an officer than of the responsibilities. There are several styles of leadership, and the style Art was taught was identified at OCS as 'Autocratic'. We were also taught that a good officer should be able to adapt his leadership style to the circumstances he was in. There are times when it *is* very necessary to be autocratic and there are times when its better to be rather less so. A good officer should be able to alter his style according to need without comprising his integrity, authority or effectiveness. Times change and so do the philosphies of leadership. It's worth noting that the autocratic type of officer historically came about when the OR's were uneducated and mostly illiterate, ie dumb grunts. (I'm not talking recent history here). Consequently leaderships styles have had to become both more flexible and less autocratic, as we are dealing with rankers that are far better educated than many officers were a hundred years ago. It hard to drive such people, but they can be *led*. The CO |
#22
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Subject: An Officer.......
From: nt (Krztalizer) Date: 2/23/04 10:13 AM Pacific Standard Time Message-id: 20040223131354.20632.0000025 o you know what his MOS was; pilot, bombardier or gunner? The search goes on. Pilot, got his B-26 start at Lake Charles, then went over to the same locations you did, apparently. Yup. So did we. The photos he showed me of the "Flak Hotel" were at Southport, I think. v/r Gordon ====(A+C==== USN SAR OK that meant we were all flying out of Stansted at the time. One of my favorite towns in the whole world.We must have flown an awful lot of missions together.That helps. I'll check with my pilot Paul Shorts to see if he knew Biggs. I'll get back to you when I get more info. Arthur Kramer 344th BG 494th BS England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany Visit my WW II B-26 website at: http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer |
#24
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Note that I said there are times and places for explanations.
But read what you want, the units I was in were damn good and I will fight with them and lead them again any day of the week. "ArtKramr" wrote in message ... Subject: An Officer....... From: "The CO" Date: 2/23/04 6:30 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-id: "Rick Folkers" wrote in message news:AKx_b.1212$Ri6.512@lakeread04... Art, that is just BS. There are times and ways to complain. And there are times and ways to explain to subordinates. Anybody who thinks they are above explanations was a sorry excuse for an officer. That was what I used to call an "Imperial Officer", one who was more aware of the privileges of being an officer than of the responsibilities. There are several styles of leadership, and the style Art was taught was identified at OCS as 'Autocratic'. We were also taught that a good officer should be able to adapt his leadership style to the circumstances he was in. There are times when it *is* very necessary to be autocratic and there are times when its better to be rather less so. A good officer should be able to alter his style according to need without comprising his integrity, authority or effectiveness. Times change and so do the philosphies of leadership. It's worth noting that the autocratic type of officer historically came about when the OR's were uneducated and mostly illiterate, ie dumb grunts. (I'm not talking recent history here). Consequently leaderships styles have had to become both more flexible and less autocratic, as we are dealing with rankers that are far better educated than many officers were a hundred years ago. It hard to drive such people, but they can be *led*. The CO Here are some more caveats from my training. When you issue and order to a subordinate there are only three answers allowed. They a 1. YES SIR 2. NO SIR 3. NO EXCUSE SIR But when you are issued an order from a superior officer there are three answers allowed. They a 1.YES SIR 2. NO SIR 3. NO EXCUSE SIR Remember that I wasn't in the Air Force. I was in the Army Air Corps, emphasis on ARMY and went through a full schedule of combat infantry training as well as flight school and as an officer as well.. Good thing too because during the Battle of the Bulge we were all issued M-1 Carbines and thrown into the line along with the XXX Corps. And I never ever heard any long discussions involving diverse opinions on what we should do. Orders were issued and were followed without question. We knew what we should do and we did it. And remember we won that war so maybe we knew something back then that the military has forgotten since. Arthur Kramer 344th BG 494th BS England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany Visit my WW II B-26 website at: http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer |
#25
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OK that meant we were all flying out of Stansted at the time. One of my
favorite towns in the whole world.We must have flown an awful lot of missions together.That helps. I'll check with my pilot Paul Shorts to see if he knew Biggs. I'll get back to you when I get more info. Al Briggs - thanks for checking for me, Art. v/r Gordon PS one of my next projects is to make a B-26 display for the museum; something like a compact kiosk that would have displays on four sides. Our WWII area is really dominated by the carrier display, to the point that there is very little room left for other theatres or aircraft types. With space at a premium, I figure I can probably get away with this sort of display, if I do it well. I am going to have enlargements of my images (Midnight Marauder after its snowy crash with a full bomb load, crew photos from Lake Charles, etc.) mounted on foam and laminated for the kiosk, then I have some other items that would fit in. What do you think? |
#26
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Here are some more caveats from my training. When you issue and order to a
subordinate there are only three answers allowed. They a 1. YES SIR 2. NO SIR 3. NO EXCUSE SIR But when you are issued an order from a superior officer there are three answers allowed. They a 1.YES SIR 2. NO SIR 3. NO EXCUSE SIR Modern-day similarities: 5 responses in Air Force ROTC training 1.Yes Sir/Ma'am 2.No Sir/Ma'am 3.I do not know but will find out, sir/ma'am 4. May I ask a question, sir/ma'am? 5.May I make a statement, sir/ma'am? And I never ever heard any long discussions involving diverse opinions on what we should do. Orders were issued and were followed without question. We knew what we should do and we did it. Just because you are willing to discuss your plans with your troops does not mean that it undermines your authority. Often the troops an officer is commanding are more experienced than them. As cadets, we are taught by our officers that our NCOs will know more than us, and we would be stupid to ignore their advice. But the fact that you are intelligent enough to use the experience available to you will often improve confidence in you as a leader. The only real way to lose that confidence is care more about yourself or "discipline" than getting the mission done. You act with conviction and intelligence and your men will follow you to the end. You act like a "candyass butterbar" (one of the first sergeants at McGuire AFB told me this), you will be having every problem in the book. And remember we won that war so maybe we knew something back then that the military has forgotten since. Sir, I respect you for your past accomplishments, but this is a little over the line. It is not the military's management styles that make a difference, it is the political leadership that has decided the outcome of the past 50 years of military conflicts. |
#27
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#28
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On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 21:33:36 +1100, Bernardz wrote:
In article , says... An officer never complains. Show me a group that isn't griping, and I'll show you a group with a morale problem. Soviet soldiers in WW2 did not complain. According to the Russian authorities they had few if any morale problems. I remember reading a report right before the Soviet Union broke up. A delegation lead by a Soviet general was visiting American bases in Germany. A US Army general was leading the tour and pointed out enlisted barracks on one base. After pointing them out he also noted to the Soviet that the majority of the enlisted personnel actually lived off-post renting their own apartments and houses. The Soviet general thought about that for a few seconds before asking, "How do you get them to come back?" -Jeff B. yeff at erols dot com |
#29
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"Bernardz" wrote in message news:MPG.1aa5d38fc0183f9f98992b@news... In article , says... An officer never complains. Show me a group that isn't griping, and I'll show you a group with a morale problem. Soviet soldiers in WW2 did not complain. According to the Russian authorities they had few if any morale problems. Given that the Soviet Authorities had a a habit of sending anyone found complaining to a Gulag this is scarcely surprising. Keith |
#30
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"Bernardz" wrote
Soviet soldiers in WW2 did not complain. According to the Russian authorities they had few if any morale problems. Hilarious! The reason so many Russians died in WW#2, was their officers kept shooting them. |
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