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#21
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Co-pilot gets sick, stewardess helps land airplane
On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 20:41:58 +0200, Mxsmanic
wrote: Floyd ""Ralph\"@ ralphs.com" writes: I hope the attendant gets a chance to fly for American as a pilot. Without valid and current pilot's certifications, her chances are zero. And she's past 60 years old, so she probably wouldn't be a good investment as a pilot at this point in time. Perhaps not for an ATR rating, but it was already mentioned that she has a commrcial pilot's license. -- ************* DAVE HATUNEN ) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * |
#22
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Co-pilot gets sick, stewardess helps land airplane
On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 14:10:01 -0700, Dudley Henriques wrote:
It helped certainly that this nice lady had flying experience but it was by NO MEANS essential to what she was asked to do or what she actually did in the cockpit. Had the Captain opted to, he most certainly could have completed the flight to a safe completion from the left seat without assistance. He might have had to extend his reach a bit at times, but nothing earth shattering for sure. All in all, this was a class crew and they did a class job, right down to the stew who very classily and politely deflated the media hype on her role in the completion of this flight. Consider who would have been landing the plane if something had caused the pilot to also conk out, though. Then her prior flight experience would have become quite relevant indeed. |
#23
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Co-pilot gets sick, stewardess helps land airplane
On Jun 18, 12:13*am, Wingnut wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 14:10:01 -0700, Dudley Henriques wrote: It helped certainly that this nice lady had flying experience but it was by NO MEANS essential to what she was asked to do or what she actually did in the cockpit. Had the Captain opted to, he most certainly could have completed the flight to a safe completion from the left seat without assistance. He might have had to extend his reach a bit at times, but nothing earth shattering for sure. All in all, this was a class crew and they did a class job, right down to the stew who very classily and politely deflated the media hype on her role in the completion of this flight. Consider who would have been landing the plane if something had caused the pilot to also conk out, though. Then her prior flight experience would have become quite relevant indeed. It's an interesting hypothesis for sure, and such a scenario has indeed been the subject of many discussions over time. The general consensus in the area where I work in human factors in aircraft accidents is that the result of such an attempt would depend on many factors, a great many of these factors over and above the "experience" factor of the newbie involved. Makes a great movie though :-)) DH |
#24
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Co-pilot gets sick, stewardess helps land airplane
"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message ... On Jun 17, 2:44 pm, Mxsmanic wrote: GrtArtiste writes: Given this set of circumstances, what types of assistance would a commercial-rated pilot be able to offer assuming she is not rated on this type aircraft? I would guess-communications with ATC primarily. What else? The same things any non-pilot could do: move levers and buttons when the captain asks her two, read checklists, communicate with ATC, etc. It helps a bit if she has piloting experience, but that doesn't mean that she will be doing anything that _requires_ piloting experience. This is absolutely correct. At no time was this attendant actually flying this aircraft. She came up front and sat down in the right seat acting as an extra set of hands to select, push, pull, and turn, any and all switches and levers as asked for by the Captain. She acted as an "assistant" and that's all. Not to take anything away from this lady who performed as asked to perform under trying circumstances, and indeed she personally appeared on national TV this morning to "set straight" all the hype being presented about her acting in any other capacity than that I have stated above. It helped certainly that this nice lady had flying experience but it was by NO MEANS essential to what she was asked to do or what she actually did in the cockpit. Had the Captain opted to, he most certainly could have completed the flight to a safe completion from the left seat without assistance. He might have had to extend his reach a bit at times, but nothing earth shattering for sure. All in all, this was a class crew and they did a class job, right down to the stew who very classily and politely deflated the media hype on her role in the completion of this flight. Dudley Henriques I find it interesting that no one has raised the subject of CRM. This seems to be a great example of the PIC assembling and using effectively all the resources available. I am confident that the PIC would have received extensive CRM training which probably included dealing with similar situations. I suspect that the PIC provided the FA clear direction as to the tasks she was required to perform as well as carefully monitoring her performance in the same way that the regular co-pilot would be. The entire crew deserves a 'nicely done'. Happy landings, |
#25
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Co-pilot gets sick, stewardess helps land airplane
Wingnut writes:
Consider who would have been landing the plane if something had caused the pilot to also conk out, though. Then her prior flight experience would have become quite relevant indeed. Not necessarily. In a situation like that, what would be most important would be her ability to follow instructions precisely, and the availability of a qualified pilot to guide her over the radio. These two things would override any piloting experience she might have. There are two myths that need to be dispelled, namely (1) the notion that anyone with any piloting experience necessarily will do a better job of getting an plane home safely in an emergency, and (2) the notion that someone without any piloting experience would necessarily crash the airplane. The skill needed when both pilots get sick from the fish is an ability to do as one is told, and this is independent of piloting experience. Additionally, a qualified pilot needs to be available on the radio (preferably an instructor). An experienced Cessna pilot without help over the radio will probably get in some possibly fatal trouble, and conversely a non-pilot with expert help over the radio may well be able to land the airplane safely. This has a great deal to do with automation and the differences between airliners and small aircraft. You would definitely want to avoid someone who might be tempted to take initiatives rather than just follow instructions--and for this reason, putting a Cessna pilot in the left seat might actually be a worse idea than putting a complete non-pilot in that seat. The non-pilot might be more likely to just do as he is told, which is exactly what you need. |
#26
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Co-pilot gets sick, stewardess helps land airplane
Mxsmanic wrote:
There are two myths that need to be dispelled, namely (1) the notion that anyone with any piloting experience necessarily will do a better job of getting an plane home safely in an emergency, and (2) the notion that someone without any piloting experience would necessarily crash the airplane. Your personal experience re piloting is...what, exactly? Bob M. |
#27
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Co-pilot gets sick, stewardess helps land airplane
On Jun 19, 6:17*am, "Bob Myers" wrote:
Mxsmanic wrote: There are two myths that need to be dispelled, namely (1) the notion that anyone with any piloting experience necessarily will do a better job of getting an plane home safely in an emergency, and (2) the notion that someone without any piloting experience would necessarily crash the airplane. Your personal experience re piloting is...what, exactly? He's our own little Walter Mitty... No doubt this incidence infringes on one of his dreams |
#28
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Co-pilot gets sick, stewardess helps land airplane
On Jun 18, 12:13*am, Wingnut wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 14:10:01 -0700, Dudley Henriques wrote: It helped certainly that this nice lady had flying experience but it was by NO MEANS essential to what she was asked to do or what she actually did in the cockpit. Had the Captain opted to, he most certainly could have completed the flight to a safe completion from the left seat without assistance. He might have had to extend his reach a bit at times, but nothing earth shattering for sure. All in all, this was a class crew and they did a class job, right down to the stew who very classily and politely deflated the media hype on her role in the completion of this flight. Consider who would have been landing the plane if something had caused the pilot to also conk out, though. Then her prior flight experience would have become quite relevant indeed. Actually her prior light plane flying experience could be a negative believe it or not. Her ability to follow explicit instruction resulting in any control input involves an aircraft time line requiring a response to input correction involving an input to initiate and an input to stop the response. Assuming a requirement for a correct result each and every time a control input was initiated, prior experience in a light plane enters the element of expectation into the input equation for the newbie. In other words, the difference between the actual result of any manual control input to a 767's controls in any and all axis, especially when coupled, roll/ yaw.......pitch/roll etc.....by a newbie needing the result to be right the first time tried from verbal instruction with the newbie having an expected response based on a totally different airplane places an EXTRA element into the equation that could easily extend/ alter/ or change the required response time line. This scenario could easily make the correction time line longer than it might have been had no expectation of aircraft response been involved. All this is just a fancy way of saying that prior experience in a Cessna 150 might not matter in a 767 being landed by a newbie following detailed instruction. DH |
#29
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Co-pilot gets sick, stewardess helps land airplane
On Jun 18, 12:51*pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
Not necessarily. In a situation like that, what would be most important would be her ability to follow instructions precisely, and the availability of a qualified pilot to guide her over the radio. These two things would override any piloting experience she might have. WRONG |
#30
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Co-pilot gets sick, stewardess helps land airplane
On Fri, 18 Jun 2010 16:11:10 -0700 (PDT), Dudley Henriques wrote:
All this is just a fancy way of saying that prior experience in a Cessna 150 might not matter in a 767 being landed by a newbie following detailed instruction. Like Atta? Tell Dekker and Hilliard that. lol -- A fireside chat not with Ari! http://tr.im/holj Motto: Live To Spooge It! |
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