Katrina fall-out

Jay Honeck wrote:

In America -- by comparison to the rest of the world -- there are no poor
people. What we call "poor" here would be rich beyond measure in many
parts of world.

Apparently you have never visited an American Indian reservation. Poor on
some of these reservations would definitely be considered poor in other
parts of the world.

Jay, you really need to put down those rose-colored glasses of yours.


--
Peter
























----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

Now, on the other hand, here in the Midwest, in hundreds of dying farm
communities, there are plenty of people living in aching poverty rather
than
shame themselves by living on the government dole. Pride still lives
in
this part of the world, and I have known many people who would die
before
asking for help.


But that doesn't change the fact that -- if they so choose (and, yes,
it
*is* a choice) -- in America the poor need not do without.


This is the kind of person my dad is and raised me to be.

Bryan "The Monk" Chaisone

Not everyone had a means of getting out of New Orleans. Many of those
who stayed had their feet as their only form of transport.

I don't buy it.

I've worked with and around more poor people than probably anyone else on
this newsgroup. Almost without exception, the very first thing a poor,
inner city family buys, after arriving in town -- before a bed, before
clothing, before toiletries (but after booze, cigarettes, and a big, loud
stereo) -- is an old, POS car. They would pool their checks right after
Father's Day (the First of the month, when the government checks used to
arrive -- the happiest day of the month, which was the only time the
neighborhood men were seen) and go buy a 15 year old used car.

On the other hand, as I understand it, welfare recipients now receive
government ATM cards, so perhaps they all don't receive money on "The First"
anymore? Without this form of "enforced savings", perhaps you're right?

In any event, it is clear that a significant proportion of the coastal
population paid no heed to the warnings -- and met an untimely demise.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Why don't you atrt your own rec.aviation.piloting.moderated?

Bryan "The Monk" Chaisone

Hey George!

He still had one leg, and what happened to his crutch or Humaround?
Where's his car? There are double amputees who run competitively with
springs in place of lower legs and feet.

Bryan "The Monk" Chaisone

Jay Honeck wrote:

Translation: they are ignorant and uneducated, incapable of logical
reasoning? Stay alive or feel good? Hmmm... what should I do?

Thank you. I couldn't have said it better.

What some people call "tradition" and "the comfort of staying near home"
many of us call "stupid" and "ignorant".

Those people died for NOTHING.

David Brooks has a good column today (9/1) in the NYT about how great
natural disasters have a way of kicking over certain rocks.

One of these is that in many of our cities you will find a hardened
underclass population that is not recognizably American. New Orleans,
for all its French Quarter charms, has always seemed more like Rio de
Janeiro where one can travel from the peak of glamour to the most
desperate poverty imaginable for a few dollars' taxi fare.

Living in the oh-so-civilized city of Boston I'd love to think with my
Yankee arrogance that such a thing would never, never happen up here,
but I can get in my car and drive to Mattapan (aka Murderpan) where
you'll see the same faces as in New Orleans, just not quite as many of
them.

I've been a hard right-winger as long as I've cared about politics, so
I don't think this is just a matter of racism or more education
spending or anything like that. There have always been slums and
ghettos in this country but they used to be waystations where
immigrants spent one generation at most before moving into the lower
middle class. In fact this has (and is) still happening today with
Vietnamese, Laotians, Eastern Europeans, etc. just as it once did for
Irish and Italians.

But, I'm going to name it here, this has not happened with black
Americans, or more properly I should say that it has not happened for
too many of them. This isn't about simple racism anymore- I've ridden
with too many African cab drivers who tell me "what a wonderful country
this is, where a man who works hard can do anything" to believe that.
One of my college roommates, who grew up on welfare in Dayton, Ohio
(another rough place) laughed at "all you white kids from Connecticut
who think they understand a damn thing about what really goes on out
there."

There is some deeper disfunction here in a society that produces images
like the ones we are seeing down in New Orleans. The fact that it has
taken this long to impose some sort of order is part of it, but that's
just window-dressing. The world most of us live in, this simply would
never happen. You'd never load up your truck from your neighbor's
house. Even now there are hundreds of people with boats lined up to go
out and look for survivors, all purely volunteers. Buying my coffee
this morning in Old Saybrook, CT I overheard a few volunteer firemen
lining up flatbed trucks from local truckers to bring all the equipment
and people they could spare down to NO, 1300 miles away. I suspect if
the government put the call out for airplanes, we'd turn the skies
black with Cessnas and Pipers pouring in. This is the America we know.

I don't have any easy answers, as we've tried shoveling money at this
problem before with spectacularly awful results. Civilizations are not
maintained by their levees but by their citizens, and we are not
running on all cylinders.

Over and out,
-cwk.

Regardless of why people stayed in NO, they are there and we need to help
them. They have lost literally everything they have. Pointing our fingers
at
the vicitms right now is not helping.

And help them we shall.

No one is pointing fingers at the victims -- we're discussing the stupidity
of man on an aviation newsgroup.

Those two actions are not mutually exclusive, by the way. We can help
rebuild *and* admonish. In fact, in large degree, that's the history of
mankind, and (sadly) the only way we humans ever seem to learn anything.

Step One: Build house on beach
Step Two: Watch house swallowed by sea.
Step Three: Rebuild?

At some point the revelation must come, no?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

In America -- by comparison to the rest of the world -- there are no poor
people. What we call "poor" here would be rich beyond measure in many
parts of world.

Apparently you have never visited an American Indian reservation. Poor on
some of these reservations would definitely be considered poor in other
parts of the world.

American Indian reservations are abominations. Why in the world any Native
American chooses (and, yes, again, it *is* a choice) to live on them is a
complete mystery to me.

And don't give me the old saw about how it's "their land". Many
reservations are far from ancestral lands, and the bottom line is this: If
their land (or their businesses, or their jobs) don't work for them, it's
time to move on. Maybe even assimilate into modern society. Perhaps give
up old traditions that don't work for them anymore.

Just like the rest of us.

(But, of course, in reality your example doesn't work, since -- if you
listen to N.A. activists -- reservations are sovereign nations, entirely
separate from America.)

And now, for some aviation content: The looters in New Orleans are SHOOTING
at rescue helicopters!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

This is the kind of person my dad is and raised me to be.

Mine, too.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

But, I'm going to name it here, this has not happened with black
Americans, or more properly I should say that it has not happened for
too many of them. This isn't about simple racism anymore- I've ridden
with too many African cab drivers who tell me "what a wonderful country
this is, where a man who works hard can do anything" to believe that.
One of my college roommates, who grew up on welfare in Dayton, Ohio
(another rough place) laughed at "all you white kids from Connecticut
who think they understand a damn thing about what really goes on out
there."

At the University of Iowa we are blessed with the occasional visiting
African professor. The University hospital also gets a fair number of
visiting doctors from Africa -- and we are occasionally able to house them
in comfort at the inn.

I've become friendly with several, and have two personal friends from Zaire.
(One of whom escaped the last revolution dressed as a woman.) All, without
exception, have told me the *exact* same thing. In fact, these very black
men and women have displayed more overt "racism" toward American Blacks than
any white folks I've ever met. They display utter contempt and disdain for
people born into such wealth who continue to show no interest in personal
advancement.

America is slowly waking up to the disaster of our underclass.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"