Cirrus and Lancair Make Bonanza Obsolete?

Tom,

The report said they tried to deploy and it didn't; then the investigator
tried and it still wouldn't.


We are talking about different reports. Which one are you quoting from?

For the one fatal spin accident, there was nothing left for any inspector
to pull.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Stu,

Wow, remember the old days when airplanes didn't have chutes and
pilots knew how to fly?


Oh, yeah, and they didn't have autopilots. And real men flew by just
flapping their arms. Jeeze, how stupidly macho do you want to get?

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Michael,

doesn't it
strike you as strange that the POH (at least accourding to the NTSB report I
read) says that the only method of spin recovery is to deploy the chute. Why
doesn't opposite rudder work?


We've been around this tree a lot of times, haven't we: No one says rudder
doesn't work. All the POH says is that the rudder method hasn't been
certified.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

John,

They had to include the chute to get this aircraft certified because of its
lack of spin recovery :-)


Says who? This statement is simply unsupportable BS! The aircraft was
certified with the chute as the certified spin recovery method. No other
method was tested for certification. That's all. Come on, this is easy.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Tom,

They had to include the chute to get this aircraft certified because of
its
lack of spin recovery :-)

This is called (as on here called it..) PROGRESS! NOT!!!!


(that was me) The statement is neither progress nor not-progress - it is
simply wrong.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Stu,

Wow! That's **** poor, isn't it?


No, it's a wrong statement, that's all.

Coming back to the original thread subject, from the reactions here, at
least some owners of traditional aircraft must be really afraid of
value depriciation - how else could one explain the totally
non-rational reactions to the new aircraft?

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Tom,

Do you maybe have any source for numbers that support this statement?
Hint: They don't exist. You're wrong.

Okay...tell me the recommended spin recovery for Cirrus.


I will - when you give me numbers that link the Cirrus safety record to
spin characteristics. Don't try to change the subject just because you
can't produce them!

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Stu,

Sounds like you either own one of these pups or have a good friend
that lets you ride and wash!


I wish! I really like facts - that's all.

You like to get personal when the facts don't support you anymore, do
you?

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Nathan,

Because the engine out performance is infinitely better.


The statistics don't really reflect that - if you factor in the engine
out performance of the pilots.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

great pilot, no, cautious pilot, yes.
My plane just came out of the shop yesterday with $20,000 in new avionics.

Nothing can prevent the worst from happening, but preventive maintence will
reduce the chances of bad things happening. If you think something is not right,
have it checked and or replaced before flying, especially into IMC. You take
care of your plane like your life depends on it (because it does)

Also your situation actually happened to me last winter, 11,000 ft over the MMM
VOR (north of las vegas) in IMC, light ice on the wings, I was in my old
cherokee 180 and it did not have pitot heat. the TC said I was in a left turn,
the AI said I was in a right turn, I knew I was in a right turn because I had
just turned in that direction. It came back in about 3 seconds, but I also hit
something, not sure what it was, but I think it was wind sheer, I lost 30 mph in
IAS and 1000 ft in a matter of seconds.
I didnt die, I am still here.

Control is a big concern, but just because things may happen you dont panic.
Keep control of the airplane, trust your instruments, maintain your airplane,
make good judgement calls and you increase your chances of living to talk smack
another day.

The answer to your situation is simple, if your watching your instruments you
will know your attitude when one is wrong.


markjen wrote:

not a factor, I have an auto pilot, if it goes out, fly the instruments,
it does
not take much to get out of an unusual attitude. I own a retract, I fly it
in
IMC.

I guess you're just a great pilot. But for us average pilots, loss of
control is a very big concern.

(I'd love to put you in a simulator and start introducing random instrument
failures in heavy turbulence while flying a tough approach. Hmmm .... the
turn coordinator and horizon don't seem to agree. Which is right? You've
got about five seconds to figure it out before you die.)

- Mark