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Letter to the FAA



 
 
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  #152  
Old June 26th 17, 02:05 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 478
Default Letter to the FAA

A wee bit disingenuous there Walt. Here is the quote 'The odds are 50/50 of something bad happening on each launch. Either it will or it won’t!' Article goes on to list 41 possible tow emergencies, The Schweizer hook is not named and might be a complicating factor in one of the 41. Doesn't help your case. Now of course there is a way to eliminate all 41, stay home. But you don't want safety, personal or for everyone else. You want to get recess canceled because you got a wedgie on the playground.
On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 8:43:09 PM UTC-4, Walt Connelly wrote:
Dan Marotta;949727 Wrote:
If it was really 50-50 nobody would be flying. Did that statistic come

from MSNBC or Johnny Depp?

Actually it was in an article from Tom Knauff called "Launching
Emergencies." I read everything I can find on the subject. I saw the
humor, the tongue in cheek of what he said, did you not?

http://www.eglider.org/NewsArticles/...mergencies.htm

Walt





--
Walt Connelly


  #153  
Old June 26th 17, 02:26 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
RR
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Posts: 82
Default Letter to the FAA

Walt, your action of going to the FAA with this, is assuming that clubs and commercial operators are not interested in fixing this. As I said in a previous post, we have addressed this on two of our three towplanes. With the recent info that has surfaced in this thread, I will bring this to our board and we will try to get our L-19 converted to tost. I am sure if you could aid in bringing that info, or collecting anything that would help for the conversion, many if not all would make the same move. We did not because (I hope) we were operating on bad information that the FAA was going to stand in our way.

Do you feel that clubs and commercial operations would need to be forced to make this change, or do you think with your help, you could assist in this change? Personally I think many would do this, we have no interest in reducing safety for our towpilots. And I expect That would be true for all. Help them make the switch, it will be more effective, and quicker than government action.

RR
  #154  
Old June 26th 17, 01:49 PM
Walt Connelly Walt Connelly is offline
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First recorded activity by AviationBanter: Aug 2010
Posts: 365
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RR View Post
Walt, your action of going to the FAA with this, is assuming that clubs and commercial operators are not interested in fixing this. As I said in a previous post, we have addressed this on two of our three towplanes. With the recent info that has surfaced in this thread, I will bring this to our board and we will try to get our L-19 converted to tost. I am sure if you could aid in bringing that info, or collecting anything that would help for the conversion, many if not all would make the same move. We did not because (I hope) we were operating on bad information that the FAA was going to stand in our way.

Do you feel that clubs and commercial operations would need to be forced to make this change, or do you think with your help, you could assist in this change? Personally I think many would do this, we have no interest in reducing safety for our towpilots. And I expect That would be true for all. Help them make the switch, it will be more effective, and quicker than government action.

RR
RR,

Actions speak louder than words. The fact that many commercial and club operations still use a system known to fail under the most dire of circumstances speaks volumes. Is it ignorance of apathy or both? I have no way of knowing what clubs and commercial operations are willing to do or reluctant to do. What I do know is I was a second or two from crashing into the ground with a student pilot not reacting and a release system not operating under conditions which as stated above is know to fail.

I am not an A&P nor am I an engineer so I'm not sure what info you are requesting to aid in your conversion BUT if it is a reluctance on the part of your board I would suggest they read the following:

Page 9, SSF, Tow Pilot Training Course (this is printed in RED)

"If at any time the nose of the tow plane is pulled uncontrollably by the glider to an dangerously high or low pitch attitude - PULL THE RELEASE.

Depending on the installation of the tow hitch, it may be possible for the release mechanism to become jammed due to the excessively high position of the glider. (American style hook)"

In addition, Advisory Circular - Date 3/3/08, AC No 43.13-2b

"When the glider on tow operates above a certain angle to the tow plane, the ring may slide upwards on the hook causing excessive load on the hook and difficulty in releasing the tow rope ring."

So, here are two admissions/acknowledgements by the SFF and the FAA that there is a problem with this system commonly used in the USA. If you are looking for something to kick start your board I would refer them to these comments.



Good luck.

Walt
  #155  
Old June 26th 17, 02:03 PM
Walt Connelly Walt Connelly is offline
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First recorded activity by AviationBanter: Aug 2010
Posts: 365
Default

You are missing a point here Mr Ballou but I can't help but feel that missing the point is what you do best.

What a glider pilots does once off tow does not affect the tow pilot, what they do on tow does. Yes, gliders crash not infrequently resulting in the death of the pilot and occasionally a passenger but that is not the fault of the tow pilot, that is exclusively the fault of the glider pilot. When a tow pilot crashes as a result of a glider pilot's failure to stay in position I become concerned. When a device meant to give the tow pilot a fighting chance to survive does not work, is known to be prone to failure I take great exception. Does this not make sense to you?

If you wish to kill yourself that is your decision, fly on my friend, I shall not interfere. If you wish to kill me we will have conflict.

Walt
  #156  
Old June 26th 17, 02:13 PM
Walt Connelly Walt Connelly is offline
Senior Member
 
First recorded activity by AviationBanter: Aug 2010
Posts: 365
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by View Post
A wee bit disingenuous there Walt. Here is the quote 'The odds are 50/50 of something bad happening on each launch. Either it will or it won’t!' Article goes on to list 41 possible tow emergencies, The Schweizer hook is not named and might be a complicating factor in one of the 41. Doesn't help your case. Now of course there is a way to eliminate all 41, stay home. But you don't want safety, personal or for everyone else. You want to get recess canceled because you got a wedgie on the playground.
On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 8:43:09 PM UTC-4, Walt Connelly wrote:
Dan Marotta;949727 Wrote:
If it was really 50-50 nobody would be flying. Did that statistic come

from MSNBC or Johnny Depp?

Actually it was in an article from Tom Knauff called "Launching
Emergencies." I read everything I can find on the subject. I saw the
humor, the tongue in cheek of what he said, did you not?

http://www.eglider.org/NewsArticles/...mergencies.htm

Walt





--
Walt Connelly
I believe number 13 was "glider gets too high." Mr Knoff appeared to be speaking from the standpoint of the glider and glider pilot but clearly he understands the effect of the glider on the tow plane. Just because he didn't specifically state the known problems with the Schweizer hook does not mean he is not aware.

Did you read his comments about changing from Schweizer to Tost and his interactions with the FAA? He, like a handful of others who have contacted me recognized a serious problem and delt with it.

Your posts do amuse me as I slurp my morning coffee and keeping me amused is a good thing.

Have a great day my friend.

Walt
  #157  
Old June 26th 17, 02:49 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
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Posts: 4,601
Default Letter to the FAA

Sorry Walt, my comment wasn't directed at you. It was a comment on the
lack of knowledge of math and statistics.

I'll either die today or I won't, so I guess I'll stay in bed and stay
comfortable until it happens. That 50-50 concept only works with coin
tosses, etc. and, as used, is disingenuous.

On 6/25/2017 2:09 PM, Walt Connelly wrote:
Dan Marotta;949727 Wrote:
If it was really 50-50 nobody would be flying. Did that statistic come

from MSNBC or Johnny Depp?

Actually it was in an article from Tom Knauff called "Launching
Emergencies." I read everything I can find on the subject. I saw the
humor, the tongue in cheek of what he said, did you not?

http://www.eglider.org/NewsArticles/...mergencies.htm

Walt





--
Dan, 5J
  #158  
Old June 26th 17, 10:25 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 478
Default Letter to the FAA

On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 2:43:07 PM UTC-4, Walt Connelly wrote:
;949735 Wrote:
On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 2:30:04 PM UTC-4, Don Johnstone wrote:-
At 03:44 25 June 2017,
wrote:-
The death toll doesn't match your hyperbole
-
How many pilots have to die before you act, give me a number.-

Couple of posts back I suggested several acts that are more productive
than squealing to the teacher. You want a number, I'll give you an
equation: When the yearly towpilot death toll = the yearly glider pilot
death toll. Glider pilot lives matter too. Simple solution is to write
letters demanding the FAA ban gliding. All those glider pilot's lives
and by default towpilot's lives saved. Brilliant.


You are missing a point here Mr Ballou but I can't help but feel that
missing the point is what you do best.

What a glider pilots does once off tow does not affect the tow pilot,
what they do on tow does. Yes, gliders crash not infrequently resulting
in the death of the pilot and occasionally a passenger but that is not
the fault of the tow pilot, that is exclusively the fault of the glider
pilot. When a tow pilot crashes as a result of a glider pilot's
failure to stay in position I become concerned. When a device meant to
give the tow pilot a fighting chance to survive does not work, is known
to be prone to failure I take great exception. Does this not make sense
to you?

If you wish to kill yourself that is your decision, fly on my friend, I
shall not interfere. If you wish to kill me we will have conflict.

Walt




--
Walt Connelly


You are taking pilots mistakes as an intentional attempt on your life. And trying to get revenge through big gov. They didn't mean to kill you, revenge is not warranted. And if it was using the gov is the sissy way.
Prove you ain't about vengeance, simple task, collect 337s on Tost installs on L-19 Birddogs and post it here. Several have expressed interest. I can even give you a hint as I understand a Philadelphia area club pulled it off. Here is your chance to make towing safer. Or you could write your letter to punish all those evil heartless people with Schweizer hooks.
  #160  
Old June 26th 17, 11:19 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tom Kelley #711
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Posts: 306
Default Letter to the FAA

On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 12:43:07 PM UTC-6, Walt Connelly wrote:
;949735 Wrote:
On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 2:30:04 PM UTC-4, Don Johnstone wrote:-
At 03:44 25 June 2017,
wrote:-
The death toll doesn't match your hyperbole
-
How many pilots have to die before you act, give me a number.-

Couple of posts back I suggested several acts that are more productive
than squealing to the teacher. You want a number, I'll give you an
equation: When the yearly towpilot death toll = the yearly glider pilot
death toll. Glider pilot lives matter too. Simple solution is to write
letters demanding the FAA ban gliding. All those glider pilot's lives
and by default towpilot's lives saved. Brilliant.


You are missing a point here Mr Ballou but I can't help but feel that
missing the point is what you do best.

What a glider pilots does once off tow does not affect the tow pilot,
what they do on tow does. Yes, gliders crash not infrequently resulting
in the death of the pilot and occasionally a passenger but that is not
the fault of the tow pilot, that is exclusively the fault of the glider
pilot. When a tow pilot crashes as a result of a glider pilot's
failure to stay in position I become concerned. When a device meant to
give the tow pilot a fighting chance to survive does not work, is known
to be prone to failure I take great exception. Does this not make sense
to you?

If you wish to kill yourself that is your decision, fly on my friend, I
shall not interfere. If you wish to kill me we will have conflict.

Walt




--
Walt Connelly


Hi Walt,
What I may have missed is how many tow's had you done and how long ago was it before finding out about this possible "release" problem? It seems like most have responded trying to offer their view in a way which has been thought about before.
As I know you, along with the many other's, they have appeared to me, to give reasonable guidance and thought when asked about this possible problem.
It also appears from the FAA they have given this review and guidance.
No one wishes "bad" on anyone, as many "bad's" can happen. If you knew of this problem long ago, why did you keep on towing until "almost bad" happened? As this current "action" is your choice, do they not have that same choice? Just asking....that's all.
Still, will miss you at Seminole, as I had towed behind you many times over the years and still remember when you first started towing. Best wherever your travels take you!

Best. Tom #711
 




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