Letter to the FAA

Right, one potential outcome could be an examination by FAA of towing gliders in general. The likelihood of unintended consequences from your personal crusade will quite probably do far more harm than good. I would agree with the advice of other contributors on this forum to pursue this (if you must) outside of government channels.

Ron Clark

Walt, I understand your desire to help here, but I don't feel this is the way to help. At our club we have 3 towplanes, 2 with tost releases, and one with a Schweizer. Why not all 3, THE FAA! It would be a piece of cake to come up with an appropriate mount for a tost hook on our L-19, but the FAA makes it difficult. As others have suggested, working to make the installation of the tost hook easier, rather than trying to make it harder to use a Schweizer release, would be far more useful. It would require more effort than a letter, but would be very benifisal to the community.

Please consider an alternative course of action.

RR

But...but...

Everybody KNOWS that more Government Involvement and more Regulation is ALWAYS desirable!

I mean, how can you not agree with the "Progressive" party platform? It is for your own good!

" see the light and end the use of Schweizer hooks on tow planes here in the land of the free and the home of the brave."

Let's talk about the implication that the "land of the free and home of the brave" has no business being in a discussion about unwanted and unneeded regulation with no clear and present threat to the soaring public (much less the public as a whole) except in Walt's World.

Here's a thought experiment. It's based on having read the NTSB report for every single accident and fatal accident in soaring over several decades.

Presume that the desired action here is for the FAA to ground towplanes with Schweizer hooks until such time as they are replaced. Further presume that the process will take from weeks to forever - for some towplanes where it is either cost prohibitive or where there is no FAA-approved solution.

If some portion of those grounded towplanes restrict the ability of clubs or commercial operators to launch gliders for anywhere from weeks to forever, then it stands to reason, based on the relative probability of a fatality due to kiting versus the probability of a fatality flying gliders generally, that the most significant live-saving impact of this action would be from simply stopping glider pilots from flying gliders.

I'm not saying if that's a good thing or a bad thing overall. Saving lives is a good thing. It's just a question of what the cost is to get there and whether the view is worth the climb.

Feel free to make assertions about the probabilities. People generally are terrible at estimating the probabilities of rare events. They tend to elevate the probabilities of the risks they think they can control and underestimate the probabilities of the risks they can't control. It leads to the illusion of control - which is comforting.

Andy Blackburn
9B

Originally Posted by Retting

Step away from this Walter. Establish your own limitation, what you will accept.
Allow others the same. Trust me on this.

Romeo

Romeo, Romeo....

I have already stepped further away than I have wanted to but trust ME on this. If YOU had found yourself 300 feet in the air dangling from a tow rope attached to a glider and unable to release while at full power headed right to the dirt YOU WOULD BE ON MY SIDE IN SPADES. PERIOD, END OF STORY.

WALT

Originally Posted by

" see the light and end the use of Schweizer hooks on tow planes here in the land of the free and the home of the brave."

Let's talk about the implication that the "land of the free and home of the brave" has no business being in a discussion about unwanted and unneeded regulation with no clear and present threat to the soaring public (much less the public as a whole) except in Walt's World.

"No clear and present threat to the soaring public?" So it appears that the soaring public does not include tow pilots in Mark Mocho's world. It was clear and present enough for some commercial operators who have contacted me to be proactive and go to Tost and release handles up near the throttle. It was clear and present enough for controlling bodies of some countries to mandate the same. Maybe YOU could jump in here and start fabricating handles approved by the FAA?

For a moment when I was looking at the ground there was a house right in my wind screen....of course in MM's world they are not the public as as whole.

Walt

Originally Posted by RR

Walt, I understand your desire to help here, but I don't feel this is the way to help. At our club we have 3 towplanes, 2 with tost releases, and one with a Schweizer. Why not all 3, THE FAA! It would be a piece of cake to come up with an appropriate mount for a tost hook on our L-19, but the FAA makes it difficult. As others have suggested, working to make the installation of the tost hook easier, rather than trying to make it harder to use a Schweizer release, would be far more useful. It would require more effort than a letter, but would be very benifisal to the community.

Please consider an alternative course of action.

RR

RR,

The reason my letter (originally a scathing report which I have been told by a college expository writing/English composition teacher was much too long to keep the attention of the average government employee) hasn't gone in is my desire to impact the soaring public as little as possible. Believe me, had I wanted to be an ALPHA HOTEL I could have easily done so. I am not an A&P, I would think that those who are and who frequent the glider world would have a much better chance of working to make the Tost hook installation easier.

Walt

You want to help save towpilots? Write articles for soaring magazine discussing towing safety(not just preaching an equipment solution.) Collect all STCs and 337s for Tost hooks for every plane that has ever towed a glider, build a webpage and put the info there. Add estimated costs of conversions and parts suppliers for the different airplanes. Once you have that info out in the world ask Tost if they'd do a group towhook discount if a bunch of US clubs purchased hooks at the same time. Then organize said group buy. If you collected the info so clubs knew that a Tost conversion cost X, info and parts came from Y, and it will take Z time to complete a lot of more them would make the switch. Or you could hide under the ruse of safety and cry to the gov't to exact revenge on the soaring community for scaring you. The only request to the FAA that would improve towing safety would be asking them to go easy on Tost hook 337s same as they do for shoulder belt installations. But this isn't about safety, no one believes that BS Walt.

Originally Posted by

Right, one potential outcome could be an examination by FAA of towing gliders in general. The likelihood of unintended consequences from your personal crusade will quite probably do far more harm than good. I would agree with the advice of other contributors on this forum to pursue this (if you must) outside of government channels.

Ron Clark

Mr Clark,

I did as requested make an attempt to pursue this outside government channels. I sent an email to a government liaison of the SSA who told me essentially that since I wasn't a member of the club they would not discuss the matter. So much for the SSA and their committment to safety. Other than acknowledging in bright red letters what might happen when a glider kites on a Schweitzer hook they appear disinterested.

Walt