Letter to the FAA

So much well thought out logic wasted.

Has anyone considered that Walt might, just might, be Lennie reincarnated?

On 6/22/2017 6:13 AM, wrote:
You want to help save towpilots? Write articles for soaring magazine discussing towing safety(not just preaching an equipment solution.) Collect all STCs and 337s for Tost hooks for every plane that has ever towed a glider, build a webpage and put the info there. Add estimated costs of conversions and parts suppliers for the different airplanes. Once you have that info out in the world ask Tost if they'd do a group towhook discount if a bunch of US clubs purchased hooks at the same time. Then organize said group buy. If you collected the info so clubs knew that a Tost conversion cost X, info and parts came from Y, and it will take Z time to complete a lot of more them would make the switch. Or you could hide under the ruse of safety and cry to the gov't to exact revenge on the soaring community for scaring you. The only request to the FAA that would improve towing safety would be asking them to go easy on Tost hook 337s same as they do for shoulder belt installations. But this isn't about safety, no one believes that BS Walt.

--
Dan, 5J

On Thursday, June 22, 2017 at 8:05:18 AM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
So much well thought out logic wasted.

Has anyone considered that Walt might, just might, be Lennie reincarnated?

On 6/22/2017 6:13 AM, wrote:
You want to help save towpilots? Write articles for soaring magazine discussing towing safety(not just preaching an equipment solution.) Collect all STCs and 337s for Tost hooks for every plane that has ever towed a glider, build a webpage and put the info there. Add estimated costs of conversions and parts suppliers for the different airplanes. Once you have that info out in the world ask Tost if they'd do a group towhook discount if a bunch of US clubs purchased hooks at the same time. Then organize said group buy. If you collected the info so clubs knew that a Tost conversion cost X, info and parts came from Y, and it will take Z time to complete a lot of more them would make the switch. Or you could hide under the ruse of safety and cry to the gov't to exact revenge on the soaring community for scaring you. The only request to the FAA that would improve towing safety would be asking them to go easy on Tost hook 337s same as they do for shoulder belt installations. But this isn't about safety, no one believes that BS Walt.

--
Dan, 5J

This long string of responses contains many excellent and well thought out comments from many knowledgeable and experienced folks. They include many fine recommendations to consider on this issue, but I truly believe that writing this letter to the FAA may very well do a lot more harm than good.

It reminds me of this famous proverb....

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions..."

Renny

On Thursday, June 22, 2017 at 3:43:08 PM UTC+3, Walt Connelly wrote:
Retting;949394 Wrote:
Step away from this Walter. Establish your own limitation, what you will
accept.
Allow others the same. Trust me on this.

Romeo

Romeo, Romeo....

I have already stepped further away than I have wanted to but trust
ME on this. If YOU had found yourself 300 feet in the air dangling from
a tow rope attached to a glider and unable to release while at full
power headed right to the dirt YOU WOULD BE ON MY SIDE IN SPADES.
PERIOD, END OF STORY.

We're on your side. And on the side of other tow pilots hauling our arses into the air.

If all tow pilots at an organisation refuse to tow with Schweizer hooks then they'll get replaced pretty quickly.

On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 8:43:10 PM UTC-4, Walt Connelly wrote:
Before I send my letter to the FAA I'd like to ask if anyone has ever
attempted to get them to see the light and end the use of Schweizer
hooks on tow planes here in the land of the free and the home of the
brave. It is a well known fact and clearly stated in the SSA/SSF and
FAA circulars and literature that under certain conditions (the exact
condition that the tow pilot will need to release) that it can be near
impossible to release the glider. Tow planes have crashed, lives have
been lost and at the same time everyone knows that this is a dangerous
situation.

Along with the conversion to Tost hooks I'd like to see it made
mandatory that the release handles be up high, near the throttle and
quickly available to the tow pilot with adequate mechanical advantage. I
can assure you that one does not have the time to go ducking and
reaching and feeling for a handle down on the floor of a Pawnee while
the glider kites in back of you.

The idea of requiring nose hooks on all gliders does not seem to be
feasible although it has been brought up to me as something that needs
to be addressed. My understanding is that the CG hook is meant for
ground/winch launch operations, however I have probably done thousands
of CG hook aero tows with no problem. For the most part these are ships
being flown by the best and most aware pilots. I'd like more input from
experience pilots on this point.

I currently have a number of highly experienced pilots from all levels
of aviation in agreement with me and willing to help me in this cause.


If one life is saved as a result of this endeavor then it will be well
worth it.

Walt Connelly




--
Walt Connelly

On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 8:43:10 PM UTC-4, Walt Connelly wrote:
Before I send my letter to the FAA I'd like to ask if anyone has ever
attempted to get them to see the light and end the use of Schweizer
hooks on tow planes here in the land of the free and the home of the
brave. It is a well known fact and clearly stated in the SSA/SSF and
FAA circulars and literature that under certain conditions (the exact
condition that the tow pilot will need to release) that it can be near
impossible to release the glider. Tow planes have crashed, lives have
been lost and at the same time everyone knows that this is a dangerous
situation.

Along with the conversion to Tost hooks I'd like to see it made
mandatory that the release handles be up high, near the throttle and
quickly available to the tow pilot with adequate mechanical advantage. I
can assure you that one does not have the time to go ducking and
reaching and feeling for a handle down on the floor of a Pawnee while
the glider kites in back of you.

The idea of requiring nose hooks on all gliders does not seem to be
feasible although it has been brought up to me as something that needs
to be addressed. My understanding is that the CG hook is meant for
ground/winch launch operations, however I have probably done thousands
of CG hook aero tows with no problem. For the most part these are ships
being flown by the best and most aware pilots. I'd like more input from
experience pilots on this point.

I currently have a number of highly experienced pilots from all levels
of aviation in agreement with me and willing to help me in this cause.


If one life is saved as a result of this endeavor then it will be well
worth it.

Walt Connelly




--
Walt Connelly

On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 8:43:10 PM UTC-4, Walt Connelly wrote:
Before I send my letter to the FAA I'd like to ask if anyone has ever
attempted to get them to see the light and end the use of Schweizer
hooks on tow planes here in the land of the free and the home of the
brave. It is a well known fact and clearly stated in the SSA/SSF and
FAA circulars and literature that under certain conditions (the exact
condition that the tow pilot will need to release) that it can be near
impossible to release the glider. Tow planes have crashed, lives have
been lost and at the same time everyone knows that this is a dangerous
situation.

Along with the conversion to Tost hooks I'd like to see it made
mandatory that the release handles be up high, near the throttle and
quickly available to the tow pilot with adequate mechanical advantage. I
can assure you that one does not have the time to go ducking and
reaching and feeling for a handle down on the floor of a Pawnee while
the glider kites in back of you.

The idea of requiring nose hooks on all gliders does not seem to be
feasible although it has been brought up to me as something that needs
to be addressed. My understanding is that the CG hook is meant for
ground/winch launch operations, however I have probably done thousands
of CG hook aero tows with no problem. For the most part these are ships
being flown by the best and most aware pilots. I'd like more input from
experience pilots on this point.

I currently have a number of highly experienced pilots from all levels
of aviation in agreement with me and willing to help me in this cause.


If one life is saved as a result of this endeavor then it will be well
worth it.

Walt Connelly




--
Walt Connelly


Walt,

I don't know how long you have been in the "Aviation Community", but I have been a pilot for over 58 years, a flight instructor for some 46 years. Have owned 8 aircraft and 2 gliders, am also a tow pilot.
Back in the "Old" days, be had FAA inspectors that knew what was going on in the real World. Now a days, they are more worried about justifying their jobs and creating regulations.
There would be nothing positive to come about complaining or explaining your view point of the "hook" to the FAA. Now if you want to design and submit, get approved via STC, offer it for sale at a reasonable price, you would be accomplishing something. But, this takes time and a lot of engineering.. Instead of complaining, which is really easy, look at the real World, and see what you can do, not what the FAA can do, which they can't.

Tom Irlbeck

I am sure that the FAA already has wind of this situation.

To the soaring community at large:

I have been somewhat disappointed in reading many of the posts related to this thread. From what I have read -- Walt has identified what he feels is a significant life threatening safety problem effecting our highly valued tow pilots. He appears to be trying to get the soaring community to voluntarily install Tost Tow Hooks (or some other acceptable towing mechanism) onto ALL of our tugs to protect them. From what I understand, he is also questioning the reasonableness of contacting the FAA via a letter if no significant action is taken to self-police ourselves regarding this issue.

I understand not wanting to involve the FAA in this matter and I agree with many of the unfavorable outcomes that might result if Walt actually does decide to mail that letter to them. However, I do not feel that the solution is to tell Walt what HE should do instead of mailing that letter. That is not likely to solve the problem to Walt’s satisfaction.

Many of the suggestions made so far are really good ones – but they are likely beyond the means of one man to accomplish. Is anyone in the soaring community willing to actually help Walt solve what he perceives to be a problem?

Does anyone have a good FSDO contact who would understand the benefits of
establishing a field approval procedure for an L-19 and other tug types?

Does anyone have the experience to make progress on an STC to install
hitches on the tugs that do not currently have any paperwork available?

Can the SSA try to get some kind of Tow Hitch Installation Waiver to
upgrade our membership’s tugs?

Is there anyone in the soaring community with the manufacturing experience
(M&M fabrication in NM and K&L Soaring in NY come immediately to mind) that
would be interested in making the hardware required for the various tugs at
an acceptable price?

Do any of our soaring supply houses have a good contact at Tost for the
“group buy� idea?

Is there even a single club or commercial operation that previously had
no plans to switch – but based on this thread has actually made plans to
install an improved tow hitch? I am sure it would give Walt a great deal
of comfort to know you listened and are doing your part to help save a life.
(note to Walt – the tugs at all the towing operations that I soar from were
all upgraded to Tost Releases years ago and every tow I have given to fellow
club members has been from a tug using a Tost release! )

I would respectfully suggest that if the soaring community does not want Walt to send that letter – they should show him some kind of positive actions is being taken within the soaring community itself to address the problem. After seeing a windshield full of ground at low altitude and feeling helpless -- It sounds like trying to convince him that we do not have a problem is not going to be very successful.

If the soaring community does not step up and prove to Walt’s satisfaction that something positive is being done then the gamble we are collectively taking is that he will not actually send that letter or that the FAA will not over-respond to the situation. To my knowledge only one Blanik L-13 had an in-flight wing failure and the entire world-wide fleet was quickly grounded. It is easy to imagine a similar outcome here – after all the release being discussed does in fact have a documented safety problem.

While it is probably true that “safety does not sell,� we all are safer for driving cars with seat belts, air bags, crumple zones, ABS brakes, etc. Maybe the same is true here too. A lot of tugs have already been converted to Tost Towing hardware. Other conversions are probably in the planning stages for the off-season. This thread may be motivating others to upgrade too. Maybe the soaring community together can come up with a solution for the tugs without any legal means of upgrading. Maybe we can convince Walt that we are actively trying to fix the problem ourselves -- as a group or even one towing operation at a time. Maybe he will see that we are really trying but it is not possible to get all the remaining tugs upgraded overnight and that it might take a considerable amount of time to resolve this fully.

Maybe we can all be a bit safer one day because of Walt’s experience of feeling helpless in a tow plane.

Respectfully

Steve McLaughlin

On Thursday, June 22, 2017 at 12:33:35 PM UTC-7, wrote:
To the soaring community at large:

I have been somewhat disappointed in reading many of the posts related to this thread. From what I have read -- Walt has identified what he feels is a significant life threatening safety problem effecting our highly valued tow pilots. He appears to be trying to get the soaring community to voluntarily install Tost Tow Hooks (or some other acceptable towing mechanism) onto ALL of our tugs to protect them. From what I understand, he is also questioning the reasonableness of contacting the FAA via a letter if no significant action is taken to self-police ourselves regarding this issue.

I understand not wanting to involve the FAA in this matter and I agree with many of the unfavorable outcomes that might result if Walt actually does decide to mail that letter to them. However, I do not feel that the solution is to tell Walt what HE should do instead of mailing that letter. That is not likely to solve the problem to Walt’s satisfaction.

Many of the suggestions made so far are really good ones – but they are likely beyond the means of one man to accomplish. Is anyone in the soaring community willing to actually help Walt solve what he perceives to be a problem?

Does anyone have a good FSDO contact who would understand the benefits of
establishing a field approval procedure for an L-19 and other tug types?

Does anyone have the experience to make progress on an STC to install
hitches on the tugs that do not currently have any paperwork available?

Can the SSA try to get some kind of Tow Hitch Installation Waiver to
upgrade our membership’s tugs?

Is there anyone in the soaring community with the manufacturing experience
(M&M fabrication in NM and K&L Soaring in NY come immediately to mind) that
would be interested in making the hardware required for the various tugs at
an acceptable price?

Do any of our soaring supply houses have a good contact at Tost for the
“group buy� idea?

Is there even a single club or commercial operation that previously had
no plans to switch – but based on this thread has actually made plans to
install an improved tow hitch? I am sure it would give Walt a great deal
of comfort to know you listened and are doing your part to help save a life.
(note to Walt – the tugs at all the towing operations that I soar from were
all upgraded to Tost Releases years ago and every tow I have given to fellow
club members has been from a tug using a Tost release! )

I would respectfully suggest that if the soaring community does not want Walt to send that letter – they should show him some kind of positive actions is being taken within the soaring community itself to address the problem. After seeing a windshield full of ground at low altitude and feeling helpless -- It sounds like trying to convince him that we do not have a problem is not going to be very successful.

If the soaring community does not step up and prove to Walt’s satisfaction that something positive is being done then the gamble we are collectively taking is that he will not actually send that letter or that the FAA will not over-respond to the situation. To my knowledge only one Blanik L-13 had an in-flight wing failure and the entire world-wide fleet was quickly grounded. It is easy to imagine a similar outcome here – after all the release being discussed does in fact have a documented safety problem.

While it is probably true that “safety does not sell,� we all are safer for driving cars with seat belts, air bags, crumple zones, ABS brakes, etc. Maybe the same is true here too. A lot of tugs have already been converted to Tost Towing hardware. Other conversions are probably in the planning stages for the off-season. This thread may be motivating others to upgrade too. Maybe the soaring community together can come up with a solution for the tugs without any legal means of upgrading. Maybe we can convince Walt that we are actively trying to fix the problem ourselves -- as a group or even one towing operation at a time. Maybe he will see that we are really trying but it is not possible to get all the remaining tugs upgraded overnight and that it might take a considerable amount of time to resolve this fully.

Maybe we can all be a bit safer one day because of Walt’s experience of feeling helpless in a tow plane.

Respectfully

Steve McLaughlin

Every pilot has the right, if not the duty, to contact the FAA about potential safety issues. I have done so myself by phone and by email, multiple times. Walt is no different except he sought input from the soaring community before sending the letter. You are more than welcome to submit your own letters rebutting Walt's. In any case, any action by the FAA would require a change in the regulations, which includes the opportunity for public comment. I regard this as a healthy process and overt actions to suppress it as, perhaps, well intentioned but wrong headed. Does anybody really think that no one from the FAA reads RAS?

Tom

Walt's concern is valid. He's identified a risk, albeit one that we've known about for decades.

I think Andy's post is spot on: the most effective way to save lives in soaring is to stop flying. If we reject that Draconian solution, everything else involves balancing risk vs. reward. We can never reduce the risk to zero, and anyone who wishes to can stop flying right now. The goal should be to reduce or mitigate the risks we can at a reasonable cost and continue to be vigilant about those that remain.

To me there are two questions:

1. How serious is the risk of using Schweizer tow releases? There are two components: a) how likely is it that a serious upset can occur?; and b) what are the consequences if it does? Statistics seem to indicate it's very unlikely, though not zero. The consequences if it does occur depend on the skill of the pilots, the altitude of the tow combination, the breaking strength of the rope, the specific installation, and probably some other factors, and range from a few exciting seconds to a potential fatality. I suspect the total risk as I've defined it is very small. But it's significant enough (especially if you're a tow pilot) that you would like to reduce it.

2. How to manage this risk? Steve offers a series of actions, most of which require someone to take the lead. Walt is "offering" to take the lead because it's the only thing he sees that he can do. Whether he's serious or terribly misguided in calling in the Feds, he's certainly gotten our attention..

And, yes, the FAA read RAS just like they used to read Charlie Spratt's posts about sailplane racing. Years ago, one of those triggered a visit from two knowledgeable-but-concerned employees at a Western contest site the day after Charlie reported, ironically, on a non-accident towing incident.

I should add that insulting others on social media because they don't agree with you doesn't work very well. So who wants to take the lead and show that soaring can manage this risk intelligently?

I'm not even a power pilot, much less a tow pilot.

Chip Bearden
"JB"