Unruly Passengers

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message
...

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
news

"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message
...

And he wouldn't cold-cock the guy trying to get out of the plane?
Steven is slipping.


It's his life, if he truly wants to end it that is his right.

Agreed...vehemently. (Though the points made about falling hazards,
etc.,
are quite legitimate. His life is his own, but go quietly into that long
good-night..)

Baloney. No one's life is their own, nor is anyone an island to
themselves.
No one can commit suicide without adversely affecting the lives of many
others. (Well, maybe Saddam Hussein could.)


For someone such as yourself who claimed an affinity with Ayn Rand, that's
some of the most absurd drivel I've read in a long time.

"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...
In a previous article, "C J Campbell"
said:
punishment. But they just fall all over themselves supporting the right
to
commit suicide, euthanize old people, and kill unborn children. It has
reached the point that the Democratic Party resembles nothing so much as
a
cult of death worshippers.

Remember the good old days, when it was the Republicans who thought that
the government shouldn't make laws taking away your right to do something
unless it harmed others? That was back before they became a wholey owned
subsidiary of the radical Christian Right.

And according to CJ's profile on Jay's site, that's a dead-on assessment.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...

Remember the good old days, when it was the Republicans who
thought that the government shouldn't make laws taking away your
right to do something unless it harmed others?


Well, since that's pretty much still the case, yes, I do remember it.

Really? Still the case? An example or two would be appreciated.

"Peter Gottlieb" wrote in message
et...

I think the conservatives are far more intrusive in people's lives.


Impossible.

"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message
...

Really? Still the case? An example or two would be appreciated.


I don't know how to provide an example of not making a law.

In a previous article, "Steven P. McNicoll" said:
"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...
Remember the good old days, when it was the Republicans who
thought that the government shouldn't make laws taking away your
right to do something unless it harmed others?


Well, since that's pretty much still the case, yes, I do remember it.

Well, CJ was just talking about those evil liberal "death worshipers" who
want to repeal the laws that make it illegal to commit suicide that it
seemed to be that it was Republicans who supported those laws in the first
place. You know, laws that take away your right to do something that
doesn't harm others.


--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
I stayed up all night playing poker with tarot cards. I got a full
house and four people died. -- Steven Wright

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message
...

Really? Still the case? An example or two would be appreciated.


I don't know how to provide an example of not making a law.

So, I suppose so many of those laws passed since the R's came to power in
1995 don't exist?

Wonder of wonders...!!!

Maybe this will help your memory :~)

The Awful Truth about Republicans

By Robert B. Ekelund, Jr., and Mark Thornton

[Posted March 25, 2004]

http://www.mises.org/fullarticle.asp?control=1476&id=67

"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message
...

So, I suppose so many of those laws passed since the R's came to
power in 1995 don't exist?


I would think that every law ever passed and not rescinded exists,
regardless who was in power when it was passed.



Wonder of wonders...!!!

Maybe this will help your memory :~)

The Awful Truth about Republicans

By Robert B. Ekelund, Jr., and Mark Thornton

[Posted March 25, 2004]

http://www.mises.org/fullarticle.asp?control=1476&id=67


Well, if you knew of examples of laws that were not made, why ask me?

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message
...

So, I suppose so many of those laws passed since the R's came to
power in 1995 don't exist?


I would think that every law ever passed and not rescinded exists,
regardless who was in power when it was passed.



Wonder of wonders...!!!

Maybe this will help your memory :~)

The Awful Truth about Republicans

By Robert B. Ekelund, Jr., and Mark Thornton

[Posted March 25, 2004]

http://www.mises.org/fullarticle.asp?control=1476&id=67


Well, if you knew of examples of laws that were not made, why ask me?


Cute.

"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message
...

"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...
In a previous article, "C J Campbell"
said:
punishment. But they just fall all over themselves supporting the right
to
commit suicide, euthanize old people, and kill unborn children. It has
reached the point that the Democratic Party resembles nothing so much
as
a
cult of death worshippers.

Remember the good old days, when it was the Republicans who thought that
the government shouldn't make laws taking away your right to do
something
unless it harmed others? That was back before they became a wholey
owned
subsidiary of the radical Christian Right.

And according to CJ's profile on Jay's site, that's a dead-on assessment.

The radical Christian right might beg to differ with that view. When I was
working on Troy Romero's campaign for state senate a few years ago, the
local Journal-American pointed out that Troy is a 'Mormon' and recommended
voting against him because of his Christian beliefs. The Christian right was
so incensed at a 'Mormon' running for office that they fielded their own
candidate and campaigned against Troy claiming that he is not a Christian.
So I guess you just can't win for losing.

It has always been like that. Still, the State of Illinois recently passed a
resolution apologizing for the State sanctioned assassination of Joseph
Smith (then the Presidential candidate of the Reform Party), seizing of all
lands and assets belonging to 'Mormons,' official disenfranchisement of all
members, driving them out of their homes in the middle of winter without
adequate food and clothing, and using military force to burn and pillage the
city of Nauvoo. That was very nice of them and the resolution was gratefully
received by members of the Church. Still, you see the same attitudes that
prevailed in those times are still around, even on this news group.

A copy of the resolution is below:


HR0627

LRB093 16247 KEF 41881 r







1

HOUSE RESOLUTION




2

WHEREAS, 138 years ago Brigham Young and more than 20,000

3

members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints were

4

expelled from the State of Illinois after the Illinois General

5

Assembly withdrew its charter for the city of Nauvoo, Illinois

6

in Hancock County in 1844; and


7

WHEREAS, During a period of seven years of Illinois

8

history, from 1839 to 1846, Latter-day Saints built and

9

developed the city of Nauvoo into the largest city in the State

10

of Illinois and the tenth largest city in the nation; and


11

WHEREAS, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

12

was established by Joseph Smith in Fayette, New York on April

13

6, 1830; and


14

WHEREAS, The Mormon Prophet, Joseph Smith, led the

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community of Latter-day Saints from Fayette, New York to

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Kirtland, Ohio in 1831; and from Ohio to Independence,

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Missouri, in 1837; and


18

WHEREAS, Joseph Smith, a strong anti-slavery advocate, led

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his community of some 15,000 Latter-day Saints to the

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Mississippi River town of Nauvoo, in Illinois, following their

21

expulsion from the slave State of Missouri in 1839; and


22

WHEREAS, Joseph Smith and the Latter-day Saints exercised

23

enormous industry and effort in the development and growth of

24

the town of Nauvoo, succeeding in creating a prosperous

25

community in which they drained the local swamp lands and

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transformed them into productive agricultural and residential

27

environments; and


28

WHEREAS, Joseph Smith and the Latter-day Saints were given

29

an extraordinary charter for the powers of home-rule by the










HR0627
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LRB093 16247 KEF 41881 r







1

Illinois General Assembly to create and preside over their own

2

court system and also to maintain their own military force,

3

second in size only to the United States Army; and


4

WHEREAS, Joseph Smith and the community of Latter-day

5

Saints exercised extensive missionary activities which drew

6

new Mormon settlers to the city Nauvoo, reaching a population

7

of some 20,000 citizens by 1844; and


8

WHEREAS, The prevailing economic conditions of the nation

9

in general, and Illinois in particular, faced a downturn in the

10

early 1840s, with the result that the rapidly growing

11

population of Nauvoo faced drastic levels of unemployment

12

without success in attracting needed industry; and


13

WHEREAS, During the period of their residency in Nauvoo,

14

Joseph Smith and his community of Latter-day Saints began as

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political Democrats, transferring their political allegiance

16

to the Whig Party in both the elections of 1838 and 1840,

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before once again transferring their affiliations back to the

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Democratic Party in the election of 1842, until the

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establishment of the Reform Party by Smith in time for the

20

election of 1844, when he began to seriously campaign for the

21

office of President of the United States; and


22

WHEREAS, The expression of political authority and power

23

within the community of Latter-day Saints was seen by many

24

citizens in Illinois as reasons for caution and concern, seeing

25

the control of local courts by Joseph Smith as autocratic, and

26

interpreting the leverage and influence of the Mormon

27

community's voting strength as an over influential forceful and

28

voting bloc; and


29

WHEREAS, Local religious customs among the Latter-day

30

Saints began to be viewed with suspicion, bias and

31

misunderstanding; and











HR0627
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LRB093 16247 KEF 41881 r







1

WHEREAS, Following the destruction of a local anti-Mormon

2

newspaper known as the Expositor, violence against the

3

Latter-day Saint community increased; and


4

WHEREAS, The Governor of the State of Illinois, Thomas

5

Ford, called out the Illinois Militia to keep order; and


6

WHEREAS, Governor Ford had the Prophet Joseph Smith and his

7

brother, Hiram Smith, jailed, on suspicion of complicity in the

8

destruction of the Expositor, in the nearby town jail of

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Carthage, Illinois; and


10

WHEREAS, A violent mob stormed the Carthage jail on June

11

27, 1844, causing the deaths of Joseph and Hiram Smith; and


12

WHEREAS, Between 1844 and 1845, violent acts against the

13

community of Latter-day Saints increased in volume and

14

intensity, demonstrated in such acts as the burning of crops,

15

the destruction of homes and the threaten extermination of the

16

entire Mormon population; and


17

WHEREAS, Faced with the extremism against the community of

18

Latter-day Saints, Brigham Young, the new leader of the Nauvoo

19

community made plans to take his people out of Illinois; and


20

WHEREAS, Beginning on February 4, 1846, Brigham Young began

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sending the community of Latter-day Saints out of their

22

homeland of Nauvoo, Illinois across the frozen waters of the

23

Mississippi River, in the largest forced migration in American

24

history; and


25

WHEREAS, Brigham Young made an exodus from the State of

26

Illinois, leading tens of thousands of men, women and children,

27

together with livestock and wagons that stretched across the

28

expansive winter horizon for miles; and











HR0627
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LRB093 16247 KEF 41881 r







1

WHEREAS, In this Mormon exodus, Brigham Young and the

2

community of Latter-day Saints left behind their life in

3

Illinois and the shining city that they had fashioned from both

4

their faith and the hard work of their hands; and


5

WHEREAS, Brigham Young and the community of Latter-day

6

Saints set off in the midst of winter for Utah, some 1300 miles

7

to the west; and


8

WHEREAS, The severity of the winter placed on Brigham Young

9

and the community of Latter-day Saints extreme hardships,

10

trudging across the Iowa Plains to the far side of that state

11

where they made a winter camp; and


12

WHEREAS, In the Spring of 1847, Brigham Young and the

13

community of Latter-day Saints began again their journey to

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Utah, beyond the Rocky Mountain Range, to the valley of the

15

Great Salt Lake; and


16

WHEREAS, On July 24, 1847, Brigham Young and the community

17

of Latter-day Saints arrived in that valley following a trek of

18

more than five months, journeying across the heart of the

19

American continent, from the heartbreak of events in Nauvoo,

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Illinois to a place of far-western refuge; and


21

WHEREAS, Within 50 years of their arrival in the territory

22

of Utah, the community of Latter-day Saint became the 45th

23

state in the Union on January 4, 1896; and


24

WHEREAS, The community of Latter-day Saints grew from a

25

population of 250,000 at the end of the 19th century to a

26

population of more than 10 million people in our present day;

27

and


28

WHEREAS, The goodness, patriotism, high moral conduct, and










HR0627
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LRB093 16247 KEF 41881 r







1

generosity of the community of Latter-day Saints has enriched

2

the landscape of the United States and the world; and


3

WHEREAS, The biases and prejudices of a less enlightened

4

age in the history of the State of Illinois caused untolled

5

hardship and trauma for the community of Latter-day Saints by

6

the distrust, violence, and inhospitable actions of a dark time

7

in our past; therefore, be it


8

RESOLVED, BY THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES OF THE

9

NINETY-THIRD GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF THE STATE OF ILLINOIS, that we

10

acknowledge the disparity of those past actions and suspicions,

11

regretting the expulsion of the community of Latter-day Saints,

12

a people of faith and hard work; and be it further


13

RESOLVED, That we asks the pardon and forgiveness of the

14

community of Latter-day Saints for the misguided efforts of our

15

citizens, Chief Executive and the General Assembly in the

16

expulsion of their Mormon ancestors from the gleaming city of

17

Nauvoo and the State of Illinois.