Run-in with Chicago Center

John,

I said nothing about flying blindly in the soup.

There are indeed days when it is better to go VFR than IFR in marginal
weather, such as when the bases are high enough and there is ice in
the clouds, however, as Jay lives in the upper Midwest, those days are
a minority.

I've known Jay long enough to pull his chain pretty hard about getting
his instrument rating for the type of flying he does and because of
the capabilities of the airplane he flies.

All the best,

Rick

john smith wrote in message .. .
While the instrument rating may get one through some events, it is not a
guarantee. In a single engine piston aircraft without weather
avoidance equipment, one runs the risk of flying into embedded cells.
ATC may or may not keep you updated on weather along your route of
flight, it's not their primary function and is one of those as time
permits things.
I have been instrument rated since 1986, but I won't challenge the
weather gods knowing that there is convective activity along my route.
Better to fly below the clouds and see the weather with the Mark I
Eyeball than fly blindly in the soup.

And if you file/request direct - you'll fly direct. When I go from Raleigh
to Florida, I tend to flyer a straighter line IFR than VFR - I'll tend to
avoid the MOAs and stuff VFR.

It's easier to get radar weather help too.

"Guy Elden Jr." wrote in message
news
I agree about the increase in safety. I don't tempt fates unless there's a
clear line through thunderstorms, one that is visible above the cloud
tops,
and ice is just a simple no-go unless the clouds are nice and high (or
broken). I actually haven't even bothered trying to fly in winter if there
are clouds near or above the freezing level.

I also realized something... time spent on pre-season football could be
_much_ better spent on an IFR ticket for getting to the _real_ games later
in the season! :-) Now that I've had my instrument ticket for over a
year,
I've found that I use it all the time, even in weather that is very clear
and very visible. I like to fly long distances (done New Jersey to Atlanta
twice now round-trip), and have found that if I'd just gone direct versus
flying the airways I would've saved maybe 5 - 10 minutes tops on each leg.
Not enough by far to leave behind the higher safety factor that IFR
offers.
You get separated from all IFR traffic, and usually get calls about VFR
traffic. But even if you don't get a VFR call, the number of VFR pilots
who
fly above about 2 - 3,000 feet AGL is much, much smaller than those who
fly
closer to the ground. I can't even remember the last time I got a traffic
call for VFR traffic while flying IFR anywhere above a cruising altitude
of
4,000 ft.

Another thing to consider is that on those marginal days, you'll still be
able to climb to a nice, comfortable cruising altitude and get better fuel
economy... not to mention a much smoother ride, and depending on
direction,
a stiff tailwind to boot. The extra training alone will help improve your
skills, which is always a good thing as we all continue to use our
"licenses
to learn".

--
Guy Elden Jr.


"Maule Driver" wrote in message
r.com...
Jay, the time thing is a bear.

But while you may not cancel many flights that you may "feel comfortable
with flying IFR", you will make more of those flights that you do make
"more
comfortably" IFR. More safely too.

Ironically, IFR you will spend more time in the sun rather than among
the
attennaes. Bring your sunglasses.

Com'on Jay, try to make the time!

(but you've heard all that)

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:fLKUc.9708$Fg5.53@attbi_s53...
While the instrument rating may get one through some events, it is
not
a
guarantee. In a single engine piston aircraft without weather
avoidance equipment, one runs the risk of flying into embedded
cells.

My main reason for not finishing up my instrument training has been a
lack
of time. A close second, however, is the fact that I have been
tracking
my
"weather vs. flight" ratio for several years, and it is indeed a rare
VFR
flight that is cancelled because of conditions that I would feel
comfortable
with flying IFR.

The flights I've scrubbed have usually been because of thunderstorms
(which
I wouldn't challenge IFR) or snow/ice -- for which my Pathfinder is
not
equipped. I also have no weather avoidance equipment on board, so
flying
in
August in the clag would be unwise. (Check out a radar loop for Iowa
today,
and you'll see why.)

The bottom line is painful, but true: Until I own a much more capable
aircraft than Atlas, an IFR ticket would be a nice ego booster, but
not
much
use.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Really, they have no business "approving" a frequency change if you're not
in their airspace. Do they have radar there?

"Guy Elden Jr." wrote in message
...
"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
newsFKUc.182853$eM2.74223@attbi_s51...
Not required. Sometimes towers want to know when your clear their
airspace, sometimes they don't care.

Yeah, I used to tell Class D towers when I was clear all the time, till
a
controller somewhat sarcastically responded "Uh, okay
niner-niner-three."

From his tone of voice it was obvious that he really didn't care (and
was,
in fact, somewhat annoyed that I called him), so I no longer bother.

Well it really depends on where you're at. Around here, two of the busier
Class D airports definitely appreciate a call when you're clear. I just
pipe
up very briefly with, "53K is clear to the northeast" and usually get a
"frequency change approved good day" response. Can't hurt.

--
Guy Elden Jr.

"Paul Sengupta" wrote in message
...

Are you not supposed to ask for a frequency change before you leave them?

Or just let them know you're leaving the frequency?


You don't have to do either. You just have to maintain radio communications
while within the Class D airspace.

Would it be improper to ask for a frequency change or to advise that you are
leaving the frequency, or just not necessary?


"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
hlink.net...

"Paul Sengupta" wrote in message
...

Are you not supposed to ask for a frequency change before you leave
them?

Or just let them know you're leaving the frequency?


You don't have to do either. You just have to maintain radio
communications
while within the Class D airspace.

Corky Scott wrote:
Football is still played like this, it's just called Rugby.

"In rugby, there are no winners or losers, only survivors."

"Bill Denton" wrote in message
...

Would it be improper to ask for a frequency change or to advise that
you are leaving the frequency, or just not necessary?


Asking for something that cannot be denied? There's nothing strictly wrong
with advising that you're leaving the frequency, it's just not necessary.

Rick Durden wrote:
I said nothing about flying blindly in the soup.
There are indeed days when it is better to go VFR than IFR in marginal
weather, such as when the bases are high enough and there is ice in
the clouds, however, as Jay lives in the upper Midwest, those days are
a minority.
I've known Jay long enough to pull his chain pretty hard about getting
his instrument rating for the type of flying he does and because of
the capabilities of the airplane he flies.

It's fine to jerk someones chain every now and then.
In previous postings, I too, have recommended Jay get his instrument ticket.
I believe we have to be a little more careful when we extol the virtures
of a rating in this forum. There are low time lurkers who read a post
such as yours and recognize you name from your AvWeb columns. Some may
mistaken your scriblings as gospel and proclaim, "Well, Durden said it
was possible, so it must be true. I'll go give it a try."
I'll admit that I was once young, low time and stupid. I have also had
the good fortune of flying with some greybeards who set me straight on
some bad habits I had in my early aviation days.
Experience has a way of illuminating the lightbulb over one's head now
and then.

Bill Denton wrote:

Would it be improper to ask for a frequency change or to advise that you
are leaving the frequency, or just not necessary?

You only *need* to ask for this if you want to switch while in their
airspace. I've hit this case occasionally, and I cannot recall it being a
problem.

For a class D w/o real RADAR (ie. CDW or MMU in my neighborhood), I'll call
when clear just to let them know. For better equiped class Ds, ie. TEB or
RDG, they get rid of me one way ("contact departure") or another ("squawk
VFR").

- Andrew

Paul Sengupta wrote:




Are you not supposed to ask for a frequency change before you leave them?

Not necessary, especially with a class D.




Or just let them know you're leaving the frequency?

Don't even have to do that.