F15E's trounced by Eurofighters

snipped petty sniping and name calling

Hey boys!!!! how about a cease fire, I'm sure your both right!!.

so if you just want to call each other names, or question each others
sexualality/virility/intellegence/expertise/(insert any measure of
ones worth)... Can you please email each other with the lovey dovey
stuff..

Go on.... try behaving like adults just for a while.... you might get
to like it, and the rest of us will not have to wade through several
dozen post with **** poor one line insults..

Thanks in anticipation




line into raving obsession.

Celebration, Scotty.

You were wrong all along.

Maybe you'll prove it by posting some pictures of those strakes.

Why?

With you batting zero here at ram, you lack the credibility to even
question
me.

LOL The doc needs to change your meds. Either that or you need to
put down the crack pipe.

Cease your projection, little kook troll.

I love this aircraft. Look out world Typhoon is coming!"

This strikes me as very much like the people who love the sports teams who
beat the teams they dislike, even when having no affiliation with either. I
imagine we won't hear much of this a few years down the line when 22s are
'trouncing' the rest.

Correct me if I am wrong but I thought that the Brits made the decision to
save
money and not fit the 27MM mauser in the Typhoon. Wonder what they shot
the 15's with? did they have cameras?


"John Cook" wrote in message
...
Hi all


Just saw this and it peaked my interest..

"The New Air Superiority Benchmark

Thursday the 19th of February 2004 will mark the day when the
undisputed king of air superiority had to surrender its thirty-year
crown to a newcomer. It happened over the skies of Windermere, in the
scenic English Lake District. Two Eurofighter Typhoon twin-seaters
were on the first RAF formation training flight from Warton Aerodrome
when they were bounced from the eight o'clock by a couple of F-15Es
belonging to the USAFE's 48th TFW, probably the most formidable and
experienced combat unit in the European theatre. The Typhoon crew did
not seem to be intimidated and with two rapid counters ended up on the
F-15 tail, comfortably gunning the trailing one, who was in full
afterburner, wings rocking and wondering what had happened.

It is fair to expect that the most surprised by this first encounter
result would be the F15 crew, used to dominate the skies since the
mid-seventies and with an exchange ratio record of 101 wins to zero
losses, and a bunch of die-hard Eurofighter critics without much
knowledge of the new fighter air combat capabilities. It is
understandable if the RAF rookies would also show their surprise at
the outcome, as one does not expect to win an air engagement on the
first training sortie with a brand new machine against one of the best
combat units in the world, riding what up to now has been the best
fighter in history.

But that is history now!

Those definitely not surprised by what the events over the Lake
District skies signify are the top echelon in the Air Combat Command,
the Chief of Staff and the RAND Corp. analysts and boffins. They have
been saying for years that the F-15 is no match to the new generation
of European fighters and even to the Su-35 Flanker. They know what
they say: their operational analyses studies and other simulated
evaluations-as indeed have ours, both at the industry and government
level-have shown that the F-15 is unable to gain air superiority
against Eurofighter Typhoon. Now they have the first real indication
that their worries were not unjustified and that the F/A-22 was the
right choice, if they want to maintain the air superiority also in the
future."


http://users.boardnation.com/~warpla...y;threadid=445


Cheers

On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 21:30:34 -0600, "t_mark" wrote:

I love this aircraft. Look out world Typhoon is coming!"

This strikes me as very much like the people who love the sports teams who
beat the teams they dislike, even when having no affiliation with either. I
imagine we won't hear much of this a few years down the line when 22s are
'trouncing' the rest.


Hmmm.. is that the 22 x F-22's ;-), you know its changing from a
silver bullet force to a Golden BB force..

I would imaging you'll hear it quite often as the very very few F-22
won't have time to play games.

Whats the latest? is it sub 200 yet?.

I imagine we won't hear much of this a few years down the line when
UCAV's are 'trouncing' the rest.

Cheers

On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 22:01:09 -0600, "Rick Folkers"
wrote:

Correct me if I am wrong but I thought that the Brits made the decision to
save
money and not fit the 27MM mauser in the Typhoon. Wonder what they shot
the 15's with? did they have cameras?

The first 55 RAF Typhoons will have the Cannon, The next tranches for
the RAF may have it, officially its been dropped!!, but some people
in the know seem to think differently.....

Wait for the tranche 2 negotiations to conclude within (if the
present rumours are true) the next 3-6 months.

Cheers

John Cook wrote:

Hi all

Just saw this and it peaked my interest..

"The New Air Superiority Benchmark

Thursday the 19th of February 2004 will mark the day when the
undisputed king of air superiority had to surrender its thirty-year
crown to a newcomer. It happened over the skies of Windermere, in the
scenic English Lake District. Two Eurofighter Typhoon twin-seaters
were on the first RAF formation training flight from Warton Aerodrome
when they were bounced from the eight o'clock by a couple of F-15Es
belonging to the USAFE's 48th TFW, probably the most formidable and
experienced combat unit in the European theatre. The Typhoon crew did
not seem to be intimidated and with two rapid counters ended up on the
F-15 tail, comfortably gunning the trailing one, who was in full
afterburner, wings rocking and wondering what had happened.

It is fair to expect that the most surprised by this first encounter
result would be the F15 crew, used to dominate the skies since the
mid-seventies and with an exchange ratio record of 101 wins to zero
losses, and a bunch of die-hard Eurofighter critics without much
knowledge of the new fighter air combat capabilities. It is
understandable if the RAF rookies would also show their surprise at
the outcome, as one does not expect to win an air engagement on the
first training sortie with a brand new machine against one of the best
combat units in the world, riding what up to now has been the best
fighter in history.

But that is history now!

Those definitely not surprised by what the events over the Lake
District skies signify are the top echelon in the Air Combat Command,
the Chief of Staff and the RAND Corp. analysts and boffins. They have
been saying for years that the F-15 is no match to the new generation
of European fighters and even to the Su-35 Flanker. They know what
they say: their operational analyses studies and other simulated
evaluations-as indeed have ours, both at the industry and government
level-have shown that the F-15 is unable to gain air superiority
against Eurofighter Typhoon. Now they have the first real indication
that their worries were not unjustified and that the F/A-22 was the
right choice, if they want to maintain the air superiority also in the
future."

http://users.boardnation.com/~warpla...y;threadid=445

Cheers

Usually, F-15E's carry Conformal Fuel Tanks (CFTs). These are not often removed, as it's
a hassle, and for Strike Eagle missions, the range/weapons carriage is worth more than
the loss in maneuverability. These would have seriously compromised the ACM capabilities
of the F-15Es in the incident discussed.

This is not to say that the Eurofighter does or does not have an advantage over the F-15E
in ACM, just that this incident tells one very little, without knowing how the aircraft
were outfitted.

Does anyone know if the F-15Es in this scenario were carrying CFTs?

"Mike Zaharis" wrote in message
...


John Cook wrote:

Hi all

Just saw this and it peaked my interest..

"The New Air Superiority Benchmark

Thursday the 19th of February 2004 will mark the day when the
undisputed king of air superiority had to surrender its thirty-year
crown to a newcomer. It happened over the skies of Windermere, in the
scenic English Lake District. Two Eurofighter Typhoon twin-seaters
were on the first RAF formation training flight from Warton Aerodrome
when they were bounced from the eight o'clock by a couple of F-15Es
belonging to the USAFE's 48th TFW, probably the most formidable and
experienced combat unit in the European theatre. The Typhoon crew did
not seem to be intimidated and with two rapid counters ended up on the
F-15 tail, comfortably gunning the trailing one, who was in full
afterburner, wings rocking and wondering what had happened.

It is fair to expect that the most surprised by this first encounter
result would be the F15 crew, used to dominate the skies since the
mid-seventies and with an exchange ratio record of 101 wins to zero
losses, and a bunch of die-hard Eurofighter critics without much
knowledge of the new fighter air combat capabilities. It is
understandable if the RAF rookies would also show their surprise at
the outcome, as one does not expect to win an air engagement on the
first training sortie with a brand new machine against one of the best
combat units in the world, riding what up to now has been the best
fighter in history.

But that is history now!

Those definitely not surprised by what the events over the Lake
District skies signify are the top echelon in the Air Combat Command,
the Chief of Staff and the RAND Corp. analysts and boffins. They have
been saying for years that the F-15 is no match to the new generation
of European fighters and even to the Su-35 Flanker. They know what
they say: their operational analyses studies and other simulated
evaluations-as indeed have ours, both at the industry and government
level-have shown that the F-15 is unable to gain air superiority
against Eurofighter Typhoon. Now they have the first real indication
that their worries were not unjustified and that the F/A-22 was the
right choice, if they want to maintain the air superiority also in the
future."


http://users.boardnation.com/~warpla...on=display;thr
eadid=445

Cheers

Usually, F-15E's carry Conformal Fuel Tanks (CFTs). These are not often
removed, as it's
a hassle, and for Strike Eagle missions, the range/weapons carriage is
worth more than
the loss in maneuverability. These would have seriously compromised the
ACM capabilities
of the F-15Es in the incident discussed.

This is not to say that the Eurofighter does or does not have an advantage
over the F-15E
in ACM, just that this incident tells one very little, without knowing how
the aircraft
were outfitted.

Does anyone know if the F-15Es in this scenario were carrying CFTs?

The pictures I've seen of the F15 don't (obviously at least) show any CFTs.

In message , Krztalizer
writes
Reminds me of the "shocking" 'loss' between the USN and the IAF that was
reported here a year or so back.

Or Jeff Ethell reporting how the Chilean Air Force beat a US Navy
carrier group 56-20. You need to know the ROE and the purpose of the
exercise before drawing too many conclusions.

--
When you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite.
W S Churchill

Paul J. Adam MainBoxatjrwlynch[dot]demon{dot}co(.)uk

On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 08:56:09 +0000, "Paul J. Adam"
wrote:

In message , Krztalizer
writes
Reminds me of the "shocking" 'loss' between the USN and the IAF that was
reported here a year or so back.

Or Jeff Ethell reporting how the Chilean Air Force beat a US Navy
carrier group 56-20. You need to know the ROE and the purpose of the
exercise before drawing too many conclusions.


I've emailed the 48th TFW for an answer..

as below:-

"Could you please help me with some information in regard to an
incident on Thursday the 19th of February 2004 over the skies of
Windermere, it is reported that Two Eurofighter Typhoon twin-seaters
were bounced from the eight o'clock by a couple of F-15Es appaerently
belonging to the USAFE's 48th TFW.


Could you please give me some background information on this incident.


Firstly Did this happen?, and If so
1. Was it an preplanned exercise?.
2. Which aircraft from the 48th were involved.
3. What was their loadout, eg Conformal fuel tanks, weapons.
4. what happend?.

Many thanks"


now its wait n see

cheers

"Paul J. Adam" wrote:

In message , Krztalizer
writes
Reminds me of the "shocking" 'loss' between the USN and the IAF that was
reported here a year or so back.

Or Jeff Ethell reporting how the Chilean Air Force beat a US Navy
carrier group 56-20. You need to know the ROE and the purpose of the
exercise before drawing too many conclusions.

Always the whining excuses.

Rod