The Apology

On Sunday, November 8, 2020 at 4:27:33 PM UTC-8, andy l wrote:
On Sunday, 8 November 2020 at 22:58:55 UTC, 2G wrote:
BTW, I DIDN'T say that 'Mike Westbrook and Hugh Grandstaff were the only ones who had used the phrase "childless corporate whores".' Go check it out: I said that I "could not find" any other references after doing a search, which I did.

Tom

. Try reading it in a forum format, such as Google groups
. Most browsers have a Find in page search function
. 49 instances of a certain word by now, including in quotes, and the first instance stands out well enough.

More to the point now, since some of us helped with finding the phrase in question, you haven't acknowledged with any thanks or other qualifying comment, such as you don't know how you missed it, thus leaving space for some here to feel your assertion may not have been entirely in good faith and some level of denial continues.

More beating of a dead horse - they provided the quote and that was the end of it for me.

Tom

On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 9:56:56 PM UTC-5, 2G wrote:

Chip, if it moves up the ladder it will be because of YOU beating a dead horse.

Tom

WE DID IT!!! Sometime yesterday, 10 Nov 2020, this post--ironically titled "The Apology"--shot into THIRD PLACE (3rd) for "Most Viewed RAS Discussions for 2020". Bronze Medal position!!! (in Google Groups, assumed to be representative of other views via Usenet providers/newsreader clients).

Un-freaking-believable. The post had almost nothing to do with soaring apart from being sparked by an apology in Soaring magazine that was deemed a craven capitulation to nefarious forces undermining all that is sacred in our sport. It concluded with the abject refusal of one sullen poster to apologize for anything. In between were condescending and insulting protestations by others that the original "offense" (with much debate over whether it was, in fact, offensive) was blown way out of proportion. Total views just in Google Groups alone were almost 7,300.

My whole perspective on the men and women in U.S. soaring is different today than when this thread kicked off three weeks ago. I concede that I've kept it going the past few days because I don't think we should forget what was said here. This was not a spirited debate over which flight computer is better or the use of ASTs in contests where we close by good-naturedly agreeing to disagree. Rather, this discussion revealed a funadmental difference in the way we respect each other in soaring.

Having seen this discussion reach the podium position and acknowledging that no one who posted seems to have changed their minds, I'm signing off. But don't stop re-reading and/or contributing on my account.

Chip Bearden
JB

On 11/10/20 10:57 PM, Chip Bearden wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 9:56:56 PM UTC-5, 2G wrote:

Chip, if it moves up the ladder it will be because of YOU beating a dead horse.

Tom

WE DID IT!!! Sometime yesterday, 10 Nov 2020, this post--ironically titled "The Apology"--shot into THIRD PLACE (3rd) for "Most Viewed RAS Discussions for 2020". Bronze Medal position!!! (in Google Groups, assumed to be representative of other views via Usenet providers/newsreader clients).

Un-freaking-believable. The post had almost nothing to do with soaring apart from being sparked by an apology in Soaring magazine that was deemed a craven capitulation to nefarious forces undermining all that is sacred in our sport. It concluded with the abject refusal of one sullen poster to apologize for anything. In between were condescending and insulting protestations by others that the original "offense" (with much debate over whether it was, in fact, offensive) was blown way out of proportion. Total views just in Google Groups alone were almost 7,300.

My whole perspective on the men and women in U.S. soaring is different today than when this thread kicked off three weeks ago. I concede that I've kept it going the past few days because I don't think we should forget what was said here. This was not a spirited debate over which flight computer is better or the use of ASTs in contests where we close by good-naturedly agreeing to disagree. Rather, this discussion revealed a funadmental difference in the way we respect each other in soaring.

Having seen this discussion reach the podium position and acknowledging that no one who posted seems to have changed their minds, I'm signing off. But don't stop re-reading and/or contributing on my account.

Chip Bearden
JB

Keep it up, Chip. Your continuous score keeping posts seem to be what
will eventually run this one to the top spot! Great job. Congratulations.

Time to move on, don'tcha think?

--
Dan
5J

On Wednesday, November 11, 2020 at 11:43:14 AM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
On 11/10/20 10:57 PM, Chip Bearden wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 9:56:56 PM UTC-5, 2G wrote:

Chip, if it moves up the ladder it will be because of YOU beating a dead horse.

Tom

WE DID IT!!! Sometime yesterday, 10 Nov 2020, this post--ironically titled "The Apology"--shot into THIRD PLACE (3rd) for "Most Viewed RAS Discussions for 2020". Bronze Medal position!!! (in Google Groups, assumed to be representative of other views via Usenet providers/newsreader clients).

Un-freaking-believable. The post had almost nothing to do with soaring apart from being sparked by an apology in Soaring magazine that was deemed a craven capitulation to nefarious forces undermining all that is sacred in our sport. It concluded with the abject refusal of one sullen poster to apologize for anything. In between were condescending and insulting protestations by others that the original "offense" (with much debate over whether it was, in fact, offensive) was blown way out of proportion. Total views just in Google Groups alone were almost 7,300.

My whole perspective on the men and women in U.S. soaring is different today than when this thread kicked off three weeks ago. I concede that I've kept it going the past few days because I don't think we should forget what was said here. This was not a spirited debate over which flight computer is better or the use of ASTs in contests where we close by good-naturedly agreeing to disagree. Rather, this discussion revealed a funadmental difference in the way we respect each other in soaring.

Having seen this discussion reach the podium position and acknowledging that no one who posted seems to have changed their minds, I'm signing off. But don't stop re-reading and/or contributing on my account.

Chip Bearden
JB

Keep it up, Chip. Your continuous score keeping posts seem to be what
will eventually run this one to the top spot! Great job. Congratulations.

Time to move on, don'tcha think?

--
Dan
5J
Good point Dan, wait until Chip sees the next chapter, I know that you have a preview.

On Wednesday, November 11, 2020 at 4:05:06 PM UTC-8, wrote:
On Wednesday, November 11, 2020 at 11:43:14 AM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
On 11/10/20 10:57 PM, Chip Bearden wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 9:56:56 PM UTC-5, 2G wrote:

Chip, if it moves up the ladder it will be because of YOU beating a dead horse.

Tom

WE DID IT!!! Sometime yesterday, 10 Nov 2020, this post--ironically titled "The Apology"--shot into THIRD PLACE (3rd) for "Most Viewed RAS Discussions for 2020". Bronze Medal position!!! (in Google Groups, assumed to be representative of other views via Usenet providers/newsreader clients).

Un-freaking-believable. The post had almost nothing to do with soaring apart from being sparked by an apology in Soaring magazine that was deemed a craven capitulation to nefarious forces undermining all that is sacred in our sport. It concluded with the abject refusal of one sullen poster to apologize for anything. In between were condescending and insulting protestations by others that the original "offense" (with much debate over whether it was, in fact, offensive) was blown way out of proportion. Total views just in Google Groups alone were almost 7,300.

My whole perspective on the men and women in U.S. soaring is different today than when this thread kicked off three weeks ago. I concede that I've kept it going the past few days because I don't think we should forget what was said here. This was not a spirited debate over which flight computer is better or the use of ASTs in contests where we close by good-naturedly agreeing to disagree. Rather, this discussion revealed a funadmental difference in the way we respect each other in soaring.

Having seen this discussion reach the podium position and acknowledging that no one who posted seems to have changed their minds, I'm signing off. But don't stop re-reading and/or contributing on my account.

Chip Bearden
JB

Keep it up, Chip. Your continuous score keeping posts seem to be what
will eventually run this one to the top spot! Great job. Congratulations.

Time to move on, don'tcha think?

--
Dan
5J
Good point Dan, wait until Chip sees the next chapter, I know that you have a preview.

It sounds like Chip has given up on trying to change people's minds by brow-beating them. Good - I am OUTTA HERE!

As this thread winds down, I agree with Kimmine and Mitch Hudson, it's important that it not be buried what Chip and so many others have been concerned about. Here are the relevant quotes:

"Yet she was the Feminazi that came to the office most every day with her very revealing tits exposing in an extremely revealing top, I could not help just taking a look at those puppies from time to time. In your eyes I guess that made me a sexist.
-Bob Youngblood (aka ), Vero Beach, Florida, October 27th, 2020, 2:43PM

"Mark, you make a great point , the apology should be from these Feminazi organizers whose mission was only to create conflict. This Femitifa approach should not be tolerated, solution, defund the WSPA as part or association with the SSA. "
-Bob Youngblood, Vero Beach, Florida, Oct 20, 2020, 12:03:12

"The complaints and the sniveling apologies are appalling. And the woman in the ad would be more attractive if she had kept her mouth shut."
-Greg Ballou, Elmwood, Massachusetts, Oct 21, 2020, 12:49:44

"Poor women, women have lost a lot since the 1950's if you think being a childless corporate whore is better than being a stay at home mother you need to talk to some honest women.
-Greg Ballou, Elmwood, Massachusetts, Oct 23, 2020, 4:24:47

“A few, or one, women should not be allowed to speak for ALL women. A quarter-page ad was addressed with a FULL PAGE apology, totally out of proportion with the "crime." I, for one, object to being called a "pig," but am not expecting an apology.�

-Tom Seim (aka 2G), Richland, Washington, Oct 28, 2020, 6:26:00 PM

“So feel free to apologize for yourself, but not for me.�

-Dan Marotta, Moriarty, New Mexico, Oct 20, 2020, 6:09:17 PM

On Wednesday, November 11, 2020 at 11:19:53 PM UTC-5, 2G wrote:
It sounds like Chip has given up on trying to change people's minds by brow-beating them. Good - I am OUTTA HERE!

Sorry, Tom Seim, I hope you recover soon from feeling "browbeaten". In my defense, mostly what I did recently was simply put your most recent words up against your previous statements. It's not my fault if you can't keep track of what you say.

Speaking of which, I found a really funny one from many years ago. Maybe it's a different 2G. He owned a DG400, too. What a coincidence! Or was this you?

On Sunday, February 6, 2005 at 12:42:22 AM UTC-5, 2G wrote:
It always amazes me, but doesn't surprise me, that those who believe
that others are assholes don't realize that they, themselves, are
behaving as assholes.

This is profound stuff, Tom!

Dan Marotta, I concede that a #1 rating for this embarrassment was always out of reach. We'd need 1,400 more views to overtake the 2020 leader. That honor goes to (drum roll) "What have we learned from all this?", by none other than Bob Youngblood, the OP of "The Apology." Neither discussion had much to do with soaring. Bob has made some good contributions on RAS (and to soaring) but he does seem to be of the "There's no such thing as bad publicity" school.

So 3rd place on 2020's Most-Viewed-RAS-Discussions list will have to do, assuming Bob doesn't launch another controversial posting in the next six weeks that rockets to the top.

I haven't been pumping "The Apology" for my amusement. OK, maybe just a little given how easy it is to poke fun at Tom. No, I kept hoping, like Diogenes looking for an honest man, that just ONE person would say something like "I have to admit my initial reaction to this affair was 'much ado about nothing'. But this discussion has made me more aware of how the things we say and do can impact others who have different perspectives. Soaring is a small enough world and we need to respect each other."

Yeah, pretty naive.

Chip Bearden
JB

PS: For the record, the 2nd-most-viewed RAS thread this year, also out of reach, is "Best Overall Motorglider available today?" This was an interesting discussion kicked off by Nick Kennedy and a good example of how useful RAS can be.

On Thursday, November 12, 2020 at 11:36:12 AM UTC-5, Chip Bearden wrote:
On Wednesday, November 11, 2020 at 11:19:53 PM UTC-5, 2G wrote:
It sounds like Chip has given up on trying to change people's minds by brow-beating them. Good - I am OUTTA HERE!
Sorry, Tom Seim, I hope you recover soon from feeling "browbeaten". In my defense, mostly what I did recently was simply put your most recent words up against your previous statements. It's not my fault if you can't keep track of what you say.

Speaking of which, I found a really funny one from many years ago. Maybe it's a different 2G. He owned a DG400, too. What a coincidence! Or was this you?

On Sunday, February 6, 2005 at 12:42:22 AM UTC-5, 2G wrote:
It always amazes me, but doesn't surprise me, that those who believe
that others are assholes don't realize that they, themselves, are
behaving as assholes.

This is profound stuff, Tom!

Dan Marotta, I concede that a #1 rating for this embarrassment was always out of reach. We'd need 1,400 more views to overtake the 2020 leader. That honor goes to (drum roll) "What have we learned from all this?", by none other than Bob Youngblood, the OP of "The Apology." Neither discussion had much to do with soaring. Bob has made some good contributions on RAS (and to soaring) but he does seem to be of the "There's no such thing as bad publicity" school.

So 3rd place on 2020's Most-Viewed-RAS-Discussions list will have to do, assuming Bob doesn't launch another controversial posting in the next six weeks that rockets to the top.

I haven't been pumping "The Apology" for my amusement. OK, maybe just a little given how easy it is to poke fun at Tom. No, I kept hoping, like Diogenes looking for an honest man, that just ONE person would say something like "I have to admit my initial reaction to this affair was 'much ado about nothing'. But this discussion has made me more aware of how the things we say and do can impact others who have different perspectives. Soaring is a small enough world and we need to respect each other."

Yeah, pretty naive.

Chip Bearden
JB

PS: For the record, the 2nd-most-viewed RAS thread this year, also out of reach, is "Best Overall Motorglider available today?" This was an interesting discussion kicked off by Nick Kennedy and a good example of how useful RAS can be.


Chip, I had once decided to not respond to this thread, but I could not help myself after seeing you go back to the well for more punch. First of all you seem to think people owe an apology for their comments, yes, some were a bit over the top. Let me go back to the very beginning when I posted this thread, it was for a specific soaring related event. You took my reference to the complainants as Feminazi self serving females with an agenda contrary to the purpose of the advertisement as an opinion that should not be heard. My initial reaction was, NOT too much about nothing.
I could have really made you go ballistic with a comment like, "Those Feminazi Radicals Wanted To Beat Their Tow Pilot To A Bloody Pulp With Their High Heels Shoved In His Mouth Like An Apple In The Mouth Of A Roasted Pig"!
When I get finished writing this new book, "FGPA". I hope I will be the best fundraiser that the WSPA has ever seen.
Checking out for the last time, I promise! Bob

On Thursday, November 12, 2020 at 4:23:52 PM UTC-5, wrote:
When I get finished writing this new book, "FGPA". I hope I will be the best fundraiser that the WSPA has ever seen.
Checking out for the last time, I promise! Bob

I wouldn't want to speak for the WSPA but if "FGPA" stands for Feminazi Glider Pilots Association, you might want to check with them before you spend any money publishing or promoting your book as a fundraiser.

First of all you seem to think people owe an apology for their comments, yes, some were a bit over the top.

I do, Bob. Your acknowledgement that some were "a bit over the top" is a start--and more than anyone else has offered. Thank you.

I see what you're doing, though. You want to own the top TWO most-viewed RAS discussions of 2020! In the past 24 hours, "The Apology" has closed the gap by 350 views and is now only 800 views behind #2. You're on your own now, however.

Chip Bearden
JB

On Thursday, November 12, 2020 at 8:36:12 AM UTC-8, Chip Bearden wrote:
On Wednesday, November 11, 2020 at 11:19:53 PM UTC-5, 2G wrote:
It sounds like Chip has given up on trying to change people's minds by brow-beating them. Good - I am OUTTA HERE!
Sorry, Tom Seim, I hope you recover soon from feeling "browbeaten". In my defense, mostly what I did recently was simply put your most recent words up against your previous statements. It's not my fault if you can't keep track of what you say.

Speaking of which, I found a really funny one from many years ago. Maybe it's a different 2G. He owned a DG400, too. What a coincidence! Or was this you?

On Sunday, February 6, 2005 at 12:42:22 AM UTC-5, 2G wrote:
It always amazes me, but doesn't surprise me, that those who believe
that others are assholes don't realize that they, themselves, are
behaving as assholes.

This is profound stuff, Tom!

Dan Marotta, I concede that a #1 rating for this embarrassment was always out of reach. We'd need 1,400 more views to overtake the 2020 leader. That honor goes to (drum roll) "What have we learned from all this?", by none other than Bob Youngblood, the OP of "The Apology." Neither discussion had much to do with soaring. Bob has made some good contributions on RAS (and to soaring) but he does seem to be of the "There's no such thing as bad publicity" school.

So 3rd place on 2020's Most-Viewed-RAS-Discussions list will have to do, assuming Bob doesn't launch another controversial posting in the next six weeks that rockets to the top.

I haven't been pumping "The Apology" for my amusement. OK, maybe just a little given how easy it is to poke fun at Tom. No, I kept hoping, like Diogenes looking for an honest man, that just ONE person would say something like "I have to admit my initial reaction to this affair was 'much ado about nothing'. But this discussion has made me more aware of how the things we say and do can impact others who have different perspectives. Soaring is a small enough world and we need to respect each other."

Yeah, pretty naive.

Chip Bearden
JB

PS: For the record, the 2nd-most-viewed RAS thread this year, also out of reach, is "Best Overall Motorglider available today?" This was an interesting discussion kicked off by Nick Kennedy and a good example of how useful RAS can be.

Hey Chip, you said you were "signing off," which I took to mean you weren't going to post to this thread anymore. Couldn't let it go, could you? Now you are bringing up 15 year-old posts (which happens to be as true today as it was 15 years ago, but is IRRELEVANT to this thread). Your compulsion on this topic is disturbing - shades of OCD...

Tom