Parachute 20 year limit

true....almost any parachute manufacturer will tell you the same...Round
parachutes are tested in order to pass TSO standards and have to be able to
successfully deploy when: packed wrong, deploy even when pilot is in any
position, when the parachute is soaked, dirty, even damaged and
more...Square sport parachutes must also be "flown" and even student squares
which are tamed down so they cannot fully stall or high speed take some
training and knowledge as well as an astute pilot who is fully aware of what
is happening, not always the case when the pilot is bailing out of a mid air
or disabled aircraft...knowing full well that many glider pilots may not
have even read the operators manuals for their emergency parachutes and have
little of no knowledge of how to use one if the occasion shows itself makes
for a far better choice of a round emergency parachute than a square for
90%+ of the potential users...
yes....you might hit the ground with a bit of an aaaarrrrrgggghhh with an
emergency parachute..but you'll have enough adrenalin pumping you won't even
feel it....if you happen to land wrong as you may well ...you could even
bust an ankle though you probably won't unless osteoporosis has already set
in...but you'll likely live to write the story and fly another day...
tim

Please visit the Wings & Wheels website at www.wingsandwheels.com


wrote in message
...
What is this about round vs ram/square? I thought it was generally
accepted that ram/square give more control and lower descent rates,
but are less suitable for glider emergency chutes because they work
reliably only if you are the right way up etc. when you pull them.

Whereas it used to be said that round ones may give no or less control
and a higher descent rate (for a given area), and you may get broken
ankles, but they are better life savers because they deploy more
quickly and reliably when used by untrained glider pilots in emergency
when you may deploy them in far from the best attitude.

True, false, or what?

Chris N.

Cris and all

Some stories on chutes.

I'm retired AAF/USAF and punched from a jet over Greenland in a snow
storm in the middle of winter and walked. I'm a member of the
Catapiller Club (It's still in existance so anyone who bails out can
join and get the pin).

Military chutes at that time were 24 foot round. Prior to and during
WWII they had two diameters. 28 foot if you weighed over 190lbs and 24
foot for us skinny guys. Idea was to reduce landing accidents cause by
descent rate. History showed that the landing injuries didn't go up
very far with heavy pilots using the 24 foot so system was changed and
only 24 foot became standard. It was cheaper to only have one style
and the 24 foot fit better in the small fighter cockpits.

After the War and due to the possibility of high speed bail out, they
started enclosing the canopy in a 'bag'. When the chute was deployed
the canopy stayed in the bag until the shroud lines had fully extended
at which time the pilot chute pulled the bag off the canopy and it
deployed. This reduced the whip lash problems with canopy deploying
and the pilot falling away from canopy until the shroud lines were
full out (snap, crackle and pop).

There were two shroud lines on right and left rear that were flagged
in red. These shrouds could be cut after canopy was deployed and the
canopy then distorted and had some forward motion. By pulling on the
right or left shrouds you could turn the canopy and this gave you
some rudimentary steering ability.

Prior to landing you rotated the canopy so that you would touch down
facing forward downwind. Upon touch down you executed a parachute
landing roll like the Para Troopers use. You then dumped the canopy to
prevent dragging in the wind.

My advice is to use the MOST RELIABLE chute under ALL conditions
(round) and get some rudimentary training in its use.

Merry Xmas and good and safe flying. (No chutes please )

Big John


************************************************** ******************************

On Fri, 5 Dec 2008 04:20:16 -0800 (PST), wrote:

What is this about round vs ram/square? I thought it was generally
accepted that ram/square give more control and lower descent rates,
but are less suitable for glider emergency chutes because they work
reliably only if you are the right way up etc. when you pull them.

Whereas it used to be said that round ones may give no or less control
and a higher descent rate (for a given area), and you may get broken
ankles, but they are better life savers because they deploy more
quickly and reliably when used by untrained glider pilots in emergency
when you may deploy them in far from the best attitude.

True, false, or what?

Chris N.

Tim and Big John, thanks.

Gregg, thanks also, but at present I am more convinced by Tim and
John. I looked up Rigging Innovations and their comments on their
emergency chute for pilots. I noted that it said “ . . . allows for
their use by aircrew personnel with minimal additional training
required over and above what they receive on current round parachute
systems”.

As a BGA Regional Safety Officer, I don’t feel comfortable advising
people to buy chutes that need any training – it will fall mostly on
deaf ears. The reality is, I believe, that most UK glider pilots have
not and will not experience any training beyond a verbal briefing.
“Air experience” flights, people taking a flight following purchase by
a relative or friend for a birthday etc., and many others pre- and
post solo, are never going to get any better than that. In the UK,
almost all 2-seater flights happen with both pilots having chutes.
Solo pilots virtually all fly with chutes, ditto experience.

For the time being, I will stick with round, tested for use by
inexperienced people, and preferably TSO’d or equivalent, and advise
my colleagues similarly when asked.

Chris N.

Squares are better. The detuned RI Aviator descends slower than a
round without doing anything. A small amount of training and the
options go way up. Square reserves are not new, and I'm certain that
there have been more square reserves deployed than round reserves.
Figuring that squares have been the standard for twenty years and the
number of jumps done over the last twenty years compared to prior
history. It may take awhile but I'd guess that once a couple of more
pilot rig manufacturers go to squares round parachutes will rapidly go
extinct. The reserve in my pilot rig is the same as one used by
skydivers, I doubt that the pilot rig business will be able to justify
round parachute production for a handful of outdated units sold. IMO
Buying a new round in 2008 is silly.

wrote in message
...
Squares are better. The detuned RI Aviator descends slower than a
round without doing anything. A small amount of training and the
options go way up. Square reserves are not new, and I'm certain that
there have been more square reserves deployed than round reserves.
Figuring that squares have been the standard for twenty years and the
number of jumps done over the last twenty years compared to prior
history. It may take awhile but I'd guess that once a couple of more
pilot rig manufacturers go to squares round parachutes will rapidly go
extinct. The reserve in my pilot rig is the same as one used by
skydivers, I doubt that the pilot rig business will be able to justify
round parachute production for a handful of outdated units sold. IMO
Buying a new round in 2008 is silly.

Well-this brings up a question--.

I have no firsthand experience or statistical evidence to support this,
but---
I inquired of my rigger (Red Payne, Flight Concepts International, Norcross
[Atlanta} Georgia, USA) about getting a square reserve/emergency chute. I
told him that price was not a factor. I just wanted the best survivability
and protection from injury.
He said I should stick with my round chute. If you are injured in the
accident or in egress, and can't "fly" the chute properly, you'll be worse
off with a square emergency chute. Red makes TSO'd reserve and regular
skydive chutes and is an "old timer", so I paid attention.

My question thus is---what do y'all think if you have to jump, partially
incapacitated, but able to get out and pull the ripcord.

Hartley Falbaum
Georgia, USA

On Dec 5, 5:57*pm, "HL Falbaum" wrote:


My question thus is---what do y'all think if you have to jump, partially
incapacitated, but able to get out and pull the ripcord.

Hartley Falbaum
Georgia, USA

One thing that the Europeans have on us is that many (some? all?) use
static rip cords which are attached to the airplane. My glider (DG)
has a hole near the seat back marked with a red stripe for just that
purpose. It took me a while to figure out what it was for as no one
in the US seems to use this method. Thus if you are incapacitated and
do manage to exit the aircraft, the chute opens automatically.
However, don't exit the glider on the ground and just walk away!!
POP. OOPS.

I have been told that in the UK everyone wears a chute no matter the
craft. True? Other countries?

Thanks, John

At 23:57 05 December 2008, HL Falbaum wrote:

wrote in message
...
Squares are better. The detuned RI Aviator descends slower than a
round without doing anything. A small amount of training and the
options go way up. Square reserves are not new, and I'm certain that
there have been more square reserves deployed than round reserves.
Figuring that squares have been the standard for twenty years and the
number of jumps done over the last twenty years compared to prior
history. It may take awhile but I'd guess that once a couple of more
pilot rig manufacturers go to squares round parachutes will rapidly go
extinct. The reserve in my pilot rig is the same as one used by
skydivers, I doubt that the pilot rig business will be able to justify
round parachute production for a handful of outdated units sold. IMO
Buying a new round in 2008 is silly.

Well-this brings up a question--.

I have no firsthand experience or statistical evidence to support this,
but---
I inquired of my rigger (Red Payne, Flight Concepts International,
Norcross
[Atlanta} Georgia, USA) about getting a square reserve/emergency chute. I

told him that price was not a factor. I just wanted the best
survivability

and protection from injury.
He said I should stick with my round chute. If you are injured in the
accident or in egress, and can't "fly" the chute properly, you'll be
worse

off with a square emergency chute. Red makes TSO'd reserve and regular
skydive chutes and is an "old timer", so I paid attention.

My question thus is---what do y'all think if you have to jump, partially

incapacitated, but able to get out and pull the ripcord.

Hartley Falbaum
Georgia, USA



I wanted a square chute because they are considerably thinner and I needed
leg room. When I mentioned it to a friend who soars and also jumps, he told
me exactly the same story. If the plane is broken and you have to jump, you
may be broken too. The round chute will get you down safely, even if all
you can do is pull the cord.

Brian Bange

Brian Bange wrote:

I wanted a square chute because they are considerably thinner and I needed
leg room. When I mentioned it to a friend who soars and also jumps, he told
me exactly the same story. If the plane is broken and you have to jump, you
may be broken too. The round chute will get you down safely, even if all
you can do is pull the cord.

Brian Bange

What type is the military using in their jettison seats?

Gregg Ballou wrote:
False. I believe squares are (slightly)more reliable. Only problem with
squares is that an untrained jumper can hurt/kill themselves landing one.

An odd feature for a (slightly) more reliable parachute.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

* Updated! "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* New Jan '08 - sections on Mode S, TPAS, ADS-B, Flarm, more

* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

On Dec 5, 4:34*pm, Greg Arnold wrote:
Brian Bange wrote:
I wanted a square chute because they are considerably thinner and I needed
leg room. When I mentioned it to a friend who soars and also jumps, he told
me exactly the same story. If the plane is broken and you have to jump, you
may be broken too. The round chute will get you down safely, even if all
you can do is pull the cord.

Brian Bange

What type is the military using in their jettison seats?

http://www.ejectionsite.com/