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PowerFlarm with FlarmView, I have a question.



 
 
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  #11  
Old May 8th 16, 02:08 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Hartley Falbaum[_2_]
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Posts: 80
Default PowerFlarm with FlarmView, I have a question.

On Thursday, May 5, 2016 at 2:17:11 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Here at Chicago Glider Club we have the dubious distinction of flying right under the approach path into Midway airport. I have looked at SouthWest planes coming through from all angles, including head-on. Flying with a C-mode transponder helps a lot, Approach will guide the big iron around us although I'm sometimes wondering about the spacing.
My PFlarm will indicate through the FlarmView display a blue dot around my position that is blinking ONLY when a SW or bigger commercial plane (equipped with TCAS?) is coming through. Could there be a connection such that the transponder when interrogated by a TCAS responds in a way that is picked up by PFlarm? What else might the blue blinking dot mean?
Please enlighten me.
Herb, J7


So--did you have "Process Mode C targets" shut off, or on?
  #12  
Old May 9th 16, 04:13 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
David Kinsell[_2_]
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Posts: 70
Default PowerFlarm with FlarmView, I have a question.

On Thu, 05 May 2016 11:17:09 -0700, herbkilian wrote:

Here at Chicago Glider Club we have the dubious distinction of flying
right under the approach path into Midway airport. I have looked at
SouthWest planes coming through from all angles, including head-on.
Flying with a C-mode transponder helps a lot, Approach will guide the
big iron around us although I'm sometimes wondering about the spacing.
My PFlarm will indicate through the FlarmView display a blue dot around
my position that is blinking ONLY when a SW or bigger commercial plane
(equipped with TCAS?) is coming through. Could there be a connection
such that the transponder when interrogated by a TCAS responds in a way
that is picked up by PFlarm? What else might the blue blinking dot
mean?
Please enlighten me.
Herb, J7


In bench testing, I've seen PCAS targets create flashing blue rings,
decreasing in diameter as the target approaches, and then the small blue
ring is replaced with the blue blinking dot as the target is overhead.
The dot is bigger than a small blue ring, so I assume that's just to make
it more visible. The beeper is not going off, so PF doesn't think
there's an imminent collision threat. Are you not seeing the blue rings
before the blue dot? If you're not, then there's some configuration
issue that needs to be fixed.

The bigger question is how well your PF is handling your Mode C
transponder? It has trouble filtering out your own transmissions, may
want to consider upgrading to Mode S for best results. I assume you have
Aggressive filtering selected, and you are receiving Mode C?
  #13  
Old May 9th 16, 04:32 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
JS
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Default PowerFlarm with FlarmView, I have a question.

On Monday, May 9, 2016 at 8:16:44 AM UTC-7, David Kinsell wrote:
The bigger question is how well your PF is handling your Mode C
transponder? It has trouble filtering out your own transmissions, may
want to consider upgrading to Mode S for best results. I assume you have
Aggressive filtering selected, and you are receiving Mode C?


Using aggressive filtering and a Trig TT22 that's being interrogated by Mode C. The flashing blue dot is boring.
Until checking the "use TXP altitude" box, every pull-up brought a collision warning.
This is my second PowerFLARM used in conjunction with Mode S. The previous installation of PF with Trig TT21 wasn't a problem. But that might have been using better FLARM firmware?
Jim
  #14  
Old May 9th 16, 05:23 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
David Kinsell[_2_]
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Posts: 70
Default PowerFlarm with FlarmView, I have a question.

On Mon, 09 May 2016 08:32:58 -0700, JS wrote:

On Monday, May 9, 2016 at 8:16:44 AM UTC-7, David Kinsell wrote:
The bigger question is how well your PF is handling your Mode C
transponder? It has trouble filtering out your own transmissions, may
want to consider upgrading to Mode S for best results. I assume you
have Aggressive filtering selected, and you are receiving Mode C?


Using aggressive filtering and a Trig TT22 that's being interrogated by
Mode C. The flashing blue dot is boring.
Until checking the "use TXP altitude" box, every pull-up brought a
collision warning.
This is my second PowerFLARM used in conjunction with Mode S. The
previous installation of PF with Trig TT21 wasn't a problem. But that
might have been using better FLARM firmware?
Jim


Mode C doesn't interrogate anything, it responds to ground radar or TCAS.
With no Mode C in your ship, can't imagine Aggressive filtering would be
needed. Probably best not to use it.

-Dave
  #15  
Old May 9th 16, 06:32 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Darryl Ramm
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Posts: 2,403
Default PowerFlarm with FlarmView, I have a question.

Jim is fairly correct in the terminology he is using.

There are Mode A and Mode C and Mode S interrogations and what a transponder replies with depends on that interrogations (and if it support that type of interrogation, a "Mode S Transponder" Supports Mode A, C, and S interrogations. A "Mode C" transponder supports Mode A and C interrogations)

Lots of people use "Mode C" or "Mode C interrogation" to mean any altitude interrogation even though most Mode S transponders will usually be interrogated via Mode S type interrogation to return altitude data. They'll respond perfectly like a Mode C transponder for legacy Mode C interrogators.

Legacy SSR issues interleaved Mode A and C interrogations, modern SSR adds Mode S. TCAS does Mode C and Mode S only. Sone GA PCAS systems do legacy mode C only.

Mode S interrogators (SSR and TCAS) utilize a trick (using side lobe suppression) to prevent Mode S capable transponders replying to their Mode A or C legacy interrogations.


On Monday, May 9, 2016 at 9:26:43 AM UTC-7, David Kinsell wrote:
On Mon, 09 May 2016 08:32:58 -0700, JS wrote:

On Monday, May 9, 2016 at 8:16:44 AM UTC-7, David Kinsell wrote:
The bigger question is how well your PF is handling your Mode C
transponder? It has trouble filtering out your own transmissions, may
want to consider upgrading to Mode S for best results. I assume you
have Aggressive filtering selected, and you are receiving Mode C?


Using aggressive filtering and a Trig TT22 that's being interrogated by
Mode C. The flashing blue dot is boring.
Until checking the "use TXP altitude" box, every pull-up brought a
collision warning.
This is my second PowerFLARM used in conjunction with Mode S. The
previous installation of PF with Trig TT21 wasn't a problem. But that
might have been using better FLARM firmware?
Jim


Mode C doesn't interrogate anything, it responds to ground radar or TCAS.
With no Mode C in your ship, can't imagine Aggressive filtering would be
needed. Probably best not to use it.

-Dave

  #16  
Old May 9th 16, 10:37 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Darryl Ramm
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Posts: 2,403
Default PowerFlarm with FlarmView, I have a question.

Sorry another r.a.s. typo. " Sone GA PCAS systems do legacy mode C only. " should be "Some GA TCAD systems do legacy mode C interrogations only." An example system is the L-3 SkyWatch, it's a Mode C interrogator only, no Mode S. And obviously PCAS does not do any interrogations, it just listens to responses from transponders to other interrogations.

BTW Those legacy Mode C only interrogators help mess things up for deduplicatiing 1090ES and FLARM signals from traffic. Since the reply to a legacy Mode C interrogation, even from a Mode S transponder, does not include the aircraft's ICAO address a PowerFLARM can't easily know to suppress the PCAS alert for a target it also has via ADS-B/1090ES or FLARM.
  #17  
Old May 11th 16, 02:44 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tango Eight
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Posts: 962
Default PowerFlarm with FlarmView, I have a question.

On Saturday, May 7, 2016 at 10:11:29 AM UTC-4, David Kinsell wrote:
On Thu, 05 May 2016 11:50:39 -0700, Richard wrote:

On Thursday, May 5, 2016 at 11:17:11 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Here at Chicago Glider Club we have the dubious distinction of flying
right under the approach path into Midway airport. I have looked at
SouthWest planes coming through from all angles, including head-on.
Flying with a C-mode transponder helps a lot, Approach will guide the
big iron around us although I'm sometimes wondering about the spacing.
My PFlarm will indicate through the FlarmView display a blue dot around
my position that is blinking ONLY when a SW or bigger commercial plane
(equipped with TCAS?) is coming through. Could there be a connection
such that the transponder when interrogated by a TCAS responds in a way
that is picked up by PFlarm? What else might the blue blinking dot
mean?
Please enlighten me.
Herb, J7


that is a mode C or mode S transponder it is non directional and as it
gets closer the circle should get smaller. Blue means it is above you.

Richard www.craggyaero.com


I've been bench testing 6.06 firmware, and see what I believe Herb is
seeing. A small flashing dot right at current position, but it's short
lived and never gets bigger. It's like the range for mode c/mode s
targets is terrible. I see lots of ADS-B targets at distances greater
than 12 miles, but hardly any mode c/mode s. Maybe they gave up trying
to estimate distance for those targets?


IIRC PF's max (software limited) range for non-directional "traffic" is 6 miles. It's in their docs, somewhere.

Why would you want flarm to report non-directional "traffic" beyond even 3 miles? Nice to know your device is working I suppose, but in flight this is just another distraction.

Suggest you set the range of your display to something useful like 2 - 4 miles. Set to 24 miles, which is what I guess is going on here, the important stuff (the close stuff) will not be displayed properly (e.g. blinking dots).

best,
Evan Ludeman

 




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