Logging time in a P51D?

"John T" wrote
In a single pilot airplane, it is fine for the person to log PIC even
if he is not current, as long as there is someone current on board
Not really. I think the confusion stems from the use of "PIC" in two
similar but logically separate functions. There's the guy in charge
of the flight and there's the guy manipulating the controls. Think of
it as "pilot in command" and "pilot in control". They're both PIC and
they may both log PIC for the same hour. (See "safety pilot".)

The Navy solved the problem very simply.

The "assigned PIC" is always the PIC (and logs PIC) no matter where
he/she sits or what he/she does.

The pilot manipulating the controls logs "First Pilot" time.

The pilot assisting the "First Pilot" logs "Second Pilot" time.

Actually, during my stay in the P-3 Navy, the term "Patrol Plane
Commander" was used in place of the FAA term "Pilot-in-Command".

Bob Moore

Truly I wish the FAA would fix this and make acting as PIC and logging
PIC the same.


I wish they would fix is by changing the words. What you log and what you are
are supposed to be different. That they are given the same name is the error.

Jose


--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

"Teacherjh" wrote in message
...

Truly I wish the FAA would fix this and make acting as PIC and logging
PIC the same.


I wish they would fix is by changing the words. What you log and what you
are
are supposed to be different. That they are given the same name is the
error.

Absolutely. And they compound the confusion by not even interpreting the
regs as written.

The FARs' distinction between "instrument meteorological conditions", on the
one hand, and "instrument conditions" or "instrument flight conditions", on
the other, is another example of abysmally confusing terminology.

--Gary

(Michael) wrote in message . com...
Truly I wish the FAA would fix this and make acting as PIC and logging
PIC the same.

Or change the names to not use "PIC" for both.

(justaguy) wrote in message . com...
Anybody care to take a shot at this question?

I took a ride in a P51D recently.
Can I log the hour towards total time or
should I just log it for the memory?

M. Grinnin

While the debate about FARs goes on I will simply tell you of my
personal experience. In 1995 I had the pleasure of flying Crazy Horse
with Lee Lauder bach. We spent 1.5 hours in the air, 0.3 of which he
flew formation with a photo plane doing a feature for the German
magazine "aerokurier" (see the June, 1995 edition if you can find
it).After learning power settings and getting the feel, I then spent
1.2 hours at the controls doing aerobatics and simulated straffing
runs over an inactive military facility. Arriving back at Kissimmee,
he had me do an overhead break and then talked me through a landing,
which I bounced and he recovered. Lee (impressive credentials and a
CFI) made the entry in my logbook: 1.2 hrs PIC. I had been signed off
and was current in tailwheel and complex before this ride. Trying not
to editorialize on what I thought of the experience but hope this
helps answer your question.

"Bob Moore" wrote in message
. 8...
"John T" wrote
In a single pilot airplane, it is fine for the person to log PIC even
if he is not current, as long as there is someone current on board
Not really. I think the confusion stems from the use of "PIC" in two
similar but logically separate functions. There's the guy in charge
of the flight and there's the guy manipulating the controls. Think of
it as "pilot in command" and "pilot in control". They're both PIC and
they may both log PIC for the same hour. (See "safety pilot".)

The Navy solved the problem very simply.


The Navy is not the FAA.

"John T" wrote in message
ws.com...
"zatatime" wrote in message


In a single pilot airplane, it is fine for the person to log PIC even
if he is not current, as long as there is someone current on board
acting as PIC.

Let's expand this scenario a bit. Let's say that my instrument currency
has
lapsed and before I can schedule a flight, my night currency lapses, too.
I
find a pilot friend (who is current) to fly safety pilot. Who logs the
PIC
time for the duration I'm the only one manipulating the controls flying
approaches during a night flight?

You both do. You as sole manipulator of the controls, the safety pilot as a
required crewmember acting as PIC.


...I still find it bizarre.

I personally do not find it bizarre at all. I think the FAA's approach is
both simple and elegant.

Ok, so to throw another hypothetical in the loop, if I'm flying safety
pilot, and we go to an airport more than 50 miles away, does it count as
x-country PIC for my instrument rating. From what my instructor tells
me, I'm nearly ready for checkride, I just need to meet x-c
requirements, sooooooo if a friend and I make an hour and a half flight
to OKC and back, each flying one way and safety pilot the other, we both log
2.8 PIC and 2.8 X-C????
(subtracting a tenth for takeoff and landing when acting as safety
pilot, since that won't be done under the hood and not really safety
pilot, just a passenger then).

Trying to figure out just how confusing the FARs can be

C J Campbell wrote:

"John T" wrote in message
ws.com...

"zatatime" wrote in message
m

In a single pilot airplane, it is fine for the person to log PIC even
if he is not current, as long as there is someone current on board
acting as PIC.

Let's expand this scenario a bit. Let's say that my instrument currency

has

lapsed and before I can schedule a flight, my night currency lapses, too.

I

find a pilot friend (who is current) to fly safety pilot. Who logs the

PIC

time for the duration I'm the only one manipulating the controls flying
approaches during a night flight?


You both do. You as sole manipulator of the controls, the safety pilot as a
required crewmember acting as PIC.


...I still find it bizarre.


I personally do not find it bizarre at all. I think the FAA's approach is
both simple and elegant.

"Matt Young" wrote in message
ink.net...
[...] if a friend and I make an hour and a half flight
to OKC and back, each flying one way and safety pilot the other, we both
log
2.8 PIC and 2.8 X-C????

Assuming you and your friend agree that the safety pilot will be acting PIC,
yes.

BTW, one question mark suffices. A sentence is either a question or it's
not. You can't make it MORE of a question by adding question marks.

Pete

Peter Duniho wrote:

...one question mark suffices. A sentence is either a question or it's
not. You can't make it MORE of a question by adding question marks.

And you can't make your criticisms more appropriate by putting two
spaces after a period instead of one, as though you were still using a
typewriter.

Matt's question was about logging flight time, not about English
composition.


Jack