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IFR use of handheld GPS



 
 
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  #91  
Old May 7th 06, 08:07 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default IFR use of handheld GPS

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"Sam Spade" wrote in message
news:iZx6g.175204$bm6.170325@fed1read04...

A legal interp has the full force and effect of regulation.



It does not.


It does so.
  #92  
Old May 7th 06, 08:54 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default IFR use of handheld GPS

Dane Spearing wrote:
ii) VFR and hand-held GPS systems are not authorized for IFR
navigation, for instrument approaches, or as a principle
instrument flight references. During IFR operations, they
may be considered only an aid to situational awareness.


Hmm. I couldn't stand reading through the whole Advisory Circular, but
as far as I can tell, the paragraph I above is the opinion of whomever
wrote the written test prep. AC 20-130A seems to only give
requirements for obtaining IFR approval for a panel mount system and
give criteria for when the "VFR Only" sticker must be applied. But
does it even say what "VFR Only" means operationally? It doesn't
mention handheld GPS at all (AFAIK).

  #93  
Old May 7th 06, 12:47 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default IFR use of handheld GPS


"Bob Noel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:


And how many AC's are referenced in the FARs?


I don't know. You'll have to count them yourself.


can you find even one?



Certainly.


PART 21-CERTIFICATION PROCEDURES FOR PRODUCTS AND PARTS

§ 21.305 Approval of materials, parts, processes, and appliances.
Whenever a material, part, process, or appliance is required to be approved
under this chapter, it may be approved-

(a) Under a Parts Manufacturer Approval issued under §21.303;

(b) Under a Technical Standard Order issued by the Administrator. Advisory
Circular 20-110 contains a list of Technical Standard Orders that may be
used to obtain approval. Copies of the Advisory Circular may be obtained
from the U.S. Department of Transportation, Publication Section (M-443.1),
Washington, D.C. 20590;

(c) In conjunction with type certification procedures for a product; or

(d) In any other manner approved by the Administrator.

[Amdt. 21-38, 37 FR 10659, May 26, 1972, as amended by Amdt. 21-50, 45 FR
38346, June 9, 1980]


  #94  
Old May 7th 06, 12:50 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default IFR use of handheld GPS


"Sam Spade" wrote in message
news:CYg7g.175496$bm6.80336@fed1read04...

No, I need more help to understand how VOR or NDB direct-route assignments
by ATC are based on AGL altitudes.


They aren't. It was you that said they were. That's one of the reasons
your statement was incorrect.


  #95  
Old May 7th 06, 12:51 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default IFR use of handheld GPS


"Sam Spade" wrote in message
news_g7g.175497$bm6.167703@fed1read04...

I cited Part 95. It is a rule.


Part 95 has many rules in it. Cite the specific rule.


  #96  
Old May 7th 06, 12:53 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default IFR use of handheld GPS


"Sam Spade" wrote in message
news:z%g7g.175498$bm6.169019@fed1read04...

Where is your reference that GPS is primary for sole means en route
navigation?


I don't need one. The burden of proof is on those that claim it's use is
prohibited. It's up to them to cite the FAR that prohibits such use.


  #97  
Old May 7th 06, 12:54 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default IFR use of handheld GPS


"Sam Spade" wrote in message
news:G0h7g.175499$bm6.83888@fed1read04...
Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"Sam Spade" wrote in message
news:iZx6g.175204$bm6.170325@fed1read04...


A legal interp has the full force and effect of regulation.


It does not.


It does so.


Prove it.


  #98  
Old May 7th 06, 02:18 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default IFR use of handheld GPS


"Dane Spearing" wrote in message
...

So, the initial purpose of this thread was to discuss whether or not one
could use a handheld GPS for IFR navigation. Lots of people have been
tossing around lots of opinions with little or no references to rules or
guidance to back them up (hardly surprising...this is usenet after all...)

Anyway, for my own personal edification and enlightenment, I went and
tracked down the official FAA Advisory Circular that specifies what
the requirements are for the use of GPS under IFR. It's entitled
"Airworthiness Approval of Navigation or Flight Management Systems
Integrating Multiple Navigation Sensors", and is FAA AC 20-130A.
It's about as exciting to read as the dictionary (again, hardly
surprising). However, the Gleim Instrument Pilot Flight Manueuvers and
Practical Test Prep guide (which is where I found the reference in the
first place) does a nice job of summarizing the requirements for use of
GPS under IFR as specified in AC 20-130A. It states:

Authorization to conduct any GPS operation under IFR requires that:
a) GPS navigation equipment used must be FAA-approved and the installation
must be done in accordance with FAA requirements
i) Approval for the use of the GPS for IFR operations, and any
limitations, will be found in the airplane's POH (also called
the FAA-approved Airplane Flight Manual) and the airplane's
logbook
ii) VFR and hand-held GPS systems are not authorized for IFR
navigation, for instrument approaches, or as a principle
instrument flight references. During IFR operations, they
may be considered only an aid to situational awareness.

Aircraft using GPS navigation equipment under IFR must be equipped with an
approved and operational alternate means of navigation appropriate to the
flight.
a) Active monitoring of the alternative navigation equipment is not
required
if the GPS receiver uses RAIM for integrity monitoring.
b) Active monitoring of the alternative navigation equipment is required
when the RAIM capability of the GPS equipment is lost.

This seems fairly clear to me.....


Did you read the first paragraph of AC 20-130A? The third sentence is most
revealing:


1. PURPOSE. This advisory circular (AC) establishes an acceptable means, but
not the only means, of obtaining airworthiness approval of multi-sensor
navigation or flight management systems (hereafter referred to as
multi-sensor equipment) integrating data from multiple navigation sensors
for use as a navigation system for oceanic and remote, domestic en route,
terminal, and non-precision instrument approach [except localizer, localizer
directional aid (LDA) and simplified directional facility (SDF)] operations.
This document does not address systems incorporating differential GPS
capability. Like all advisory material, this AC is not mandatory and does
not constitute a requirement. As such, the terms "shall" and "must" used in
this AC pertain to an applicant who chooses to follow the method presented.
The criteria of AC 90-45A, Approval of Area Navigation Systems for Use in
the U.S. National Airspace System, does not apply to certification of
equipment described in this AC. This AC supersedes previous GPS installation
guidance contained in: FAA Notice 8110.48, Airworthiness Approval of
Navigation or Flight Management Systems Integrating Multiple Navigation
Sensors, and FAA Interim Guidance Memoranda dated February 25, 1991; April
5, 1991; March 20, 1992; July 20, 1992; and September 21, 1993. The
appropriate information contained in those documents is incorporated in this
AC.



Here's another little gem from the Advisory Circular Checklist, AC No.
00-2.15:


3. Explanation of the AC system. The FAA issues advisory circulars to inform
the aviation public in a systematic way of non-regulatory material. Unless
incorporated into a regulation by reference, the contents of an advisory
circular are not binding on the public. Advisory circulars are issued in a
numbered-subject system corresponding to the subject areas of the Federal
Aviation Regulations (FAR) (Title 14, Code of Federal Regulations, Chapter
I, Federal Aviation Administration); and Chapter III, Commercial Space
Transportation, Federal Aviation Administration, Department of
Transportation, Parts 400-450. An AC is issued to provide guidance and
information in a designated subject area or to show a method acceptable to
the Administrator for complying with a related Federal Aviation Regulation.


  #99  
Old May 7th 06, 02:27 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default IFR use of handheld GPS

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"Sam Spade" wrote in message
news:CYg7g.175496$bm6.80336@fed1read04...

No, I need more help to understand how VOR or NDB direct-route assignments
by ATC are based on AGL altitudes.



They aren't. It was you that said they were. That's one of the reasons
your statement was incorrect.


You're so full of **** and deception, Steve. Here is my original post:

The "rule" is that direct routes initiated by ATC are limited to the
service volume of VOR (or rarely, NDBs) and the controller can assure
that MIAs will not be violated.


You're the one that introduced "AGL altitudes."

Do you have clue about the term "intellectual honesty?"
  #100  
Old May 7th 06, 02:32 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default IFR use of handheld GPS

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"Sam Spade" wrote in message
news:z%g7g.175498$bm6.169019@fed1read04...

Where is your reference that GPS is primary for sole means en route
navigation?



I don't need one. The burden of proof is on those that claim it's use is
prohibited. It's up to them to cite the FAR that prohibits such use.


That is a giant load of crap.
 




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