"bush flying" in the suburbs?

Donating a few thousand to the governor's campaign slush fund would probably
be a good place to start. Seems to work for most other things in that place.

"Blueskies" wrote in message
om...
A 'proper license' should not be too hard to come by. How do you get one?

"Gig Giacona" wr.giacona@ wrote

In NJ you can't land anywhere except and approved landing facility,. . .
NJ Statues


6:1-2. Definitions
As used in this chapter:

landing or taking off while engaged in carrying passengers for hire or
reward or instructing students for hire or reward

This statute applies to commercial operations.

So you CAN go alone or take your friends, as long as you don't charge them
or receive a reward, and land in all the fields you want without prior
permission from the 'commission. Of course you would want to approve it
with the land owner first.

PJ

--

============================================
Here's to the duck who swam a lake and never lost a feather,
May sometime another year, we all be back together.
JJW
============================================

in message ...

"Rich S." wrote in message
...
"zatatime" wrote in message
...


Define "approved", sil vous plait.

Rich S.


NJ Statues


6:1-2. Definitions
As used in this chapter:

" Aircraft " means any contrivance invented, used or designed for
navigation or flight in the air except a parachute or other contrivance
designed for such navigation but used primarily as safety equipment.

"Airman" means any person who engages in the navigation or direction
of aircraft while under way.

"Airport" means any locality, either of land or water, which is used
for the landing or taking off of aircraft and which meets the requirements
for a rating by the United States department of commerce.

"Commission" means the state aviation commission.

"Director" means the state director of aviation.

"Landing field" means any locality, either of land or water, which
is
used for the landing or taking off of aircraft and which does not meet
the
requirements for a rating by the United States department of commerce.

6:1-15. Licensing of airports and landing fields
No owner or operator of any airport or landing field shall permit the
owner or pilot of any aircraft to use such airport or landing field for
landing or taking off while engaged in carrying passengers for hire or
reward or instructing students for hire or reward, unless such owner or
operator of the airport or landing field has been granted a license or
temporary letter of authority from the commission for such operation.

No owner or pilot of aircraft shall carry any passengers for hire or
reward from any airport or landing field in this state, unless such
airport
or landing field has been granted a license or temporary letter of
authority from the commission for the type of operation to be engaged in.


6:1-43. Use of emergency facility or facility operated exclusively by and
for government; license for aeronautical activity; fixed base operation
It shall be unlawful, except as provided for by the provisions of this
chapter and the rules, regulations and orders adopted pursuant to this
chapter, to operate, use, or cause to be operated or used any avigation
facility intended to accommodate the operation, take-off, or landing of
aircraft , except in the case of emergency or at avigation facilities
owned
and operated exclusively by and for the Government of the United States.
No
aircraft or airman shall utilize, land, or take off from any area of land
or water, unless that area is licensed for such activity, or found and
declared by the commissioner to be vital or necessary for avigation
purposes. It shall be further unlawful to operate or allow to be
operated
without proper license any aeronautical activity-fixed base operation
that
is required to be licensed by the provisions of this chapter or the
rules,
regulations and orders issued pursuant to this chapter in the interests
of
the public health, safety and welfare.

6:1-44. Licenses; aviation facilities and temporary landing areas
The commissioner shall provide for the licensing of airports, landing
strips, or other avigation facilities and temporary landing areas by
rules,
regulations and orders adequate to protect the public health and safety
and
the safety of those participating in aeronautical activities; provided,
however, that the continued use and operation of airports, landing
strips,
and other avigation facilities, in use and operation on the effective
date
of this chapter, for which an application for a license shall have been
filed within the time fixed by the commissioner, shall be permitted,
pending the granting or rejection of such applications; and provided
further, that the application for a license for any airport, landing
strip,
or other avigation facility in use and operation on the effective date of
this chapter shall be granted, unless the commissioner shall find that
such
airports, landing strips, or other avigation facilities are not
constructed, equipped and operated in accordance with the standards and
requirements fixed by the rules, regulations and orders of the
commissioner. Whenever the commissioner or the Director of Aeronautics
shall reject any application for license under the provisions of this
section, he shall state in writing the reasons for such rejection.

The commissioner may further determine it necessary and provide for
the
licensing of specific aeronautical activities, fixed base operations, or
persons engaged in specific types of aeronautical activities, or
operations
by rules, regulations and orders adequate to protect the public health,
safety and welfare and the safety of those participating in aeronautics.

PJ Hunt on Dec 7, 3:04 pm wrote:


"Gig Giacona" wr.giacona@ wrote

In NJ you can't land anywhere except and approved landing facility,.
.. .
NJ Statues

6:1-2. Definitions
As used in this chapter:
landing or taking off while engaged in carrying passengers for hire
or
reward or instructing students for hire or reward

This statute applies to commercial operations.

So you CAN go alone or take your friends, as long as you don't charge
them
or receive a reward, and land in all the fields you want without prior
permission from the 'commission. Of course you would want to approve it
with the land owner first.

**** Reply ***

That is what I thought at first too. However the section dealing with
emergency landings appears to prohibit, without regard to com-
mercial operation, non-emergency landings at non-licecensed fields.
But maybe I need to read it again 2-3 more times.

--

FF

PJ Hunt wrote:

This statute applies to commercial operations.

So you CAN go alone or take your friends, as long as you don't charge them
or receive a reward, and land in all the fields you want without prior
permission from the 'commission. Of course you would want to approve it
with the land owner first.

Rich asked for a definition of "approved". That's what Gig provided. The section
he quoted does prohibit commercial operations, but no claim has been made that
that's the entire law in New Jersey. Perhaps "zatatime" can provide a reference
to the statute that prohibits other operations?

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.

On Tue, 7 Dec 2004 14:04:44 -0900, "PJ Hunt"
wrote:

So you CAN go alone or take your friends, as long as you don't charge them
or receive a reward, and land in all the fields you want without prior
permission from the 'commission. Of course you would want to approve it
with the land owner first.

There are indeed private fields in NJ. Of course they may pre-date the
ordinance quoted.

I landed at several such when I took Damian Delgaizo's bush-flying
course.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
the blog www.danford.net

On Tue, 7 Dec 2004 11:14:03 -0800, "Rich S."
wrote:

"zatatime" wrote in message
.. .

In NJ you can't land anywhere except and approved landing facility,. . .

Define "approved", sil vous plait.

Rich S.


You'd have to check with the State DOT for a true definition, but the
working definition is any designated public or private heliport, or
airport within the state.

HTH.
z

"zatatime" wrote in message
...

You'd have to check with the State DOT for a true definition, but the
working definition is any designated public or private heliport, or
airport within the state.

As with the word "approved" - your definition just substitutes the word
"designated". In order to be meaningful, one needs to know how, by whom and
by what authority. I read Gia's excerpts and it's clear that the NJ state
government has usurped the Federal authority in this area - not that this is
anything new for a state government.

We have much the same type of ordinance in the area I live. A few years ago,
the county decided the sheriff's deputies were getting confused about the
"No Shooting" boundaries and found it difficult to enforce. So, they just
made the whole area out of bounds. If one reads the wording though, it
allows shooting in "designated shooting ranges". They failed to define what
constitutes a shooting range and didn't set up procedures for designation. I
think I have a sign on the property someplace that warns trespassers they
are entering a designated shooting range.

I hate beanery lawyers, but sometimes the stupidity of municipal, county,
state and federal burrocrats leaves one no choice. Most times, the wording
of the law makes little difference when it comes time to go to court. The
judge will interpret however he/she wants.

None of the above should be construed as criticism of any of our wonderful
appointed or elected officials.

Rich "Toe the line" S.

"Rich S." wrote:


it's clear that the NJ state
government has usurped the Federal authority in this area - not that this is
anything new for a state government.

I'm not sure how clear that is. Isn't there something in the US
Constitution relegating to the states any powers not specifically
reserved to the federal gov't? AFAIK, land use falls into that
category, so is not usurpation of federal authority.

PS I'm not saying that the NJ law doesn't suck -- just that it is
within their powers if that's what the people of the Garden State
want.
--
Alex -- Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked infrequently.

zatatime wrote in
:

snip
I used to know a helicopter pilot who flew Santa in and out of
a small field in town,

Cool! I didn't realize Santa had a Chauffer.

I guess as the world gets more and more populated, the Reindeer just
don't cut it anymore...

"Judah" wrote in message
. ..
I used to know a helicopter pilot who flew Santa in and out of
a small field in town,

[...]
I guess as the world gets more and more populated, the Reindeer just
don't cut it anymore...

Didn't you hear? He had to switch to something else, 'cause the reindeer
kept burning up from the air friction.