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#121
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Global Warming/Climate Change (was contrails)
The ice sheets floating on the sea may melt but will not raise the sea
level. The ice sheets on Greenland, several miles thick, if and when they melt will certainly raise the sea levels as advertised. mj |
#122
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Global Warming/Climate Change (was contrails)
On Jan 8, 5:58*pm, delboy wrote:
On 8 Jan, 16:25, Tom Gardner wrote: . Um, which planet earth do you live on? There have been multiple "extinction events" which take all of 5 seconds to find on wackypedia. In particular, the "clathrate gun hypothesis" is particularly relevant. A snippet to whet your appetite... * The clathrate gun hypothesis is the popular name given * to the hypothesis that rises in sea temperatures (and/or * falls in sea level) can trigger the sudden release of * methane from methane clathrate compounds buried in * seabeds and permafrost which, because the methane * itself is a powerful greenhouse gas, leads to further * temperature rise and further methane clathrate * destabilization – in effect initiating a runaway process, * as irreversible once started as the firing of a gun * ... * However there is stronger evidence that runaway methane * clathrate breakdown may have caused drastic alteration of * the ocean environment and the atmosphere of earth on a * number of occasions in the past, over timescales of tens * of thousands of years; most notably in connection with the * Permian extinction event, when 96% of all marine species * became extinct 251 million years ago. Sounds pretty drastic to me! Er! Did I say there hadn't been any mass extinctions? You said close to that in your last sentence (see below) - to within 4%, to be more "precise" I included what you said - since you omitted it, here it is again. On Jan 8, 12:42 pm, delboy wrote: As the Earth has maintained reasonably stable temperatures (with relatively minor variations) for billions of years, it must have pretty good natural control and feedback mechanisms. Otherwise life on it would have already died out. ------ There have been lots of them, including the large dinosaurs (large meteorite strike?), woolly mammoths (hunting, loss of habitat), dodos (stupid birds) and even our near relatives the neanderthals (climate change - the last ice age, probably nothing to do with CO2 emissions or methane clathrates). Straw man arguments - you are discussing points with yourself, because I didn't make any such points. |
#123
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Global Warming/Climate Change (was contrails)
On 8 Jan, 19:05, Tom Gardner wrote:
On Jan 8, 5:58*pm, delboy wrote: On 8 Jan, 16:25, Tom Gardner wrote: . Um, which planet earth do you live on? There have been multiple "extinction events" which take all of 5 seconds to find on wackypedia. In particular, the "clathrate gun hypothesis" is particularly relevant. A snippet to whet your appetite... * The clathrate gun hypothesis is the popular name given * to the hypothesis that rises in sea temperatures (and/or * falls in sea level) can trigger the sudden release of * methane from methane clathrate compounds buried in * seabeds and permafrost which, because the methane * itself is a powerful greenhouse gas, leads to further * temperature rise and further methane clathrate * destabilization – in effect initiating a runaway process, * as irreversible once started as the firing of a gun * ... * However there is stronger evidence that runaway methane * clathrate breakdown may have caused drastic alteration of * the ocean environment and the atmosphere of earth on a * number of occasions in the past, over timescales of tens * of thousands of years; most notably in connection with the * Permian extinction event, when 96% of all marine species * became extinct 251 million years ago. Sounds pretty drastic to me! Er! Did I say there hadn't been any mass extinctions? You said close to that in your last sentence (see below) - to within 4%, to be more "precise" I included what you said - since you omitted it, here it is again. On Jan 8, 12:42 pm, delboy wrote: As the Earth has maintained reasonably stable temperatures (with relatively minor variations) for billions of years, it must have pretty good natural control and feedback mechanisms. Otherwise life on it would have already died out. ------ There have been lots of them, including the large dinosaurs (large meteorite strike?), woolly mammoths (hunting, loss of habitat), dodos (stupid birds) and even our near relatives the neanderthals (climate change - the last ice age, probably nothing to do with CO2 emissions or methane clathrates). Straw man arguments - you are discussing points with yourself, because I didn't make any such points.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I meant that all life forms on Earth would have been wiped out by a really significant change in temperature, particularly on the hot side! Some organisms and small creatures can survive being frozen for a period. You brought up the multiple extinctions events. Derek Copeland |
#124
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Global Warming/Climate Change (was contrails)
On Jan 8, 4:26*am, Scott wrote:
Mark Jardini wrote: While at one time it was valid to judge what was going on in the whole world by what was happening in England, those days are passed. Your local climate has little to say about what is globally in play with climate. In fact, England should get a good deal colder with the progression of global warming, the seas will dilute and the saline gradient that drags warm water to your shores will cease to flow. It would be catastrophic to many fisheries as well. Mark Jardini http://www.kusi.com/home/78477082.html?video=pop&t=a Thank you Scott. A voice of reason. Mike Carris |
#125
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Global Warming/Climate Change (was contrails)
I have been told that if lake Tahoe was emptied onto the entire state
of California it would cover the whole state 4 inches deep in water. It hardly seems possible when seen from the air. The lake is so small compared to the whole state. Volumes, as oppposed to areas, can be very deceptive to the human eye and mind. The volume of ice on greenland would not seem to possibly be enough to raise the oceans 2-3 feet. And yet it is. Things are quite commonly not what they seem. Mark Jardini Add: John Coleman owns the weather channel. While this gives him a forum from which to sound off, it is hardly "bona fides" for an informed opinion on climate change. |
#126
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Global Warming/Climate Change (was contrails)
mike wrote:
On Jan 8, 4:26 am, Scott wrote: Mark Jardini wrote: While at one time it was valid to judge what was going on in the whole world by what was happening in England, those days are passed. Your local climate has little to say about what is globally in play with climate. In fact, England should get a good deal colder with the progression of global warming, the seas will dilute and the saline gradient that drags warm water to your shores will cease to flow. It would be catastrophic to many fisheries as well. Mark Jardini http://www.kusi.com/home/78477082.html?video=pop&t=a Thank you Scott. A voice of reason. Mike Carris Ah yes, a weather talk by John Coleman. After receiving his journalism degree in 1957, he became the weather anchor for WMBD-TV in Peoria, Illinois. Coleman was also a weather anchor for KETV in Omaha, WISN-TV in Milwaukee and then WBBM-TV and WLS-TV in Chicago. He helped found the Weather Channel. What weight can one possibly place on the 95% consensus of researchers in the field against a media expert TV weather man? Brian W |
#127
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Global Warming/Climate Change (was contrails)
Mark Jardini wrote:
John Coleman owns the weather channel. While this gives him a forum from which to sound off, it is hardly "bona fides" for an informed opinion on climate change. Be fair: he does have an undergraduate degree in Journalism, after all. Brian W |
#128
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Global Warming/Climate Change (was contrails)
brian whatcott wrote:
mike wrote: On Jan 8, 4:26 am, Scott wrote: Mark Jardini wrote: While at one time it was valid to judge what was going on in the whole world by what was happening in England, those days are passed. Your local climate has little to say about what is globally in play with climate. In fact, England should get a good deal colder with the progression of global warming, the seas will dilute and the saline gradient that drags warm water to your shores will cease to flow. It would be catastrophic to many fisheries as well. Mark Jardini http://www.kusi.com/home/78477082.html?video=pop&t=a Thank you Scott. A voice of reason. Mike Carris Ah yes, a weather talk by John Coleman. After receiving his journalism degree in 1957, he became the weather anchor for WMBD-TV in Peoria, Illinois. Coleman was also a weather anchor for KETV in Omaha, WISN-TV in Milwaukee and then WBBM-TV and WLS-TV in Chicago. He helped found the Weather Channel. What weight can one possibly place on the 95% consensus of researchers in the field against a media expert TV weather man? Brian W His video was humorous, and would be a good subject for a class in logical fallacies. |
#129
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Global Warming/Climate Change (was contrails)
On Jan 8, 5:57*pm, Mark Jardini wrote:
I have been told that if lake Tahoe was emptied onto the entire state of California it would cover the whole state 4 inches deep in water. It hardly seems possible when seen from the air. The lake is so small compared to the whole state. Volumes, as oppposed to areas, can be very deceptive to the human eye and mind. The volume of ice on greenland would not seem to possibly be enough to raise the oceans 2-3 feet. And yet it is. Things are quite commonly not what they seem. Mark Jardini Add: John Coleman owns the weather channel. While this gives him a forum from which to sound off, it is *hardly "bona fides" for an informed opinion on climate change. The USGS says a complete melt of the Greenland ice sheet would raise sea level 6.5 meters or 21 feet - http://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/fs2-00/ If that melted, there would be enough ice melt elsewhere to double that. Of course, the temperature rise that would do that would cause the ocean waters to expand enough to raise it another 200 feet or so putting 80% of the homes in the world underwater. That much ice melt would expose darker oceans and ground surface so more of the sun's heat would be absorbed instead of reflected back to space. Like most of the climate variables, there's always pesky multiplier effects which makes exact predictions extremely difficult. |
#130
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Global Warming/Climate Change (was contrails)
On Jan 8, 7:11*pm, bildan wrote:
On Jan 8, 5:57*pm, Mark Jardini wrote: I have been told that if lake Tahoe was emptied onto the entire state of California it would cover the whole state 4 inches deep in water. It hardly seems possible when seen from the air. The lake is so small compared to the whole state. Volumes, as oppposed to areas, can be very deceptive to the human eye and mind. The volume of ice on greenland would not seem to possibly be enough to raise the oceans 2-3 feet. And yet it is. Things are quite commonly not what they seem. Mark Jardini Add: John Coleman owns the weather channel. While this gives him a forum from which to sound off, it is *hardly "bona fides" for an informed opinion on climate change. The USGS says a complete melt of the Greenland ice sheet would raise sea level 6.5 meters or 21 feet -http://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/fs2-00/*If that melted, there would be enough ice melt elsewhere to double that. Of course, the temperature rise that would do that would cause the ocean waters to expand enough to raise it another 200 feet or so putting 80% of the homes in the world underwater. That much ice melt would expose darker oceans and ground surface so more of the sun's heat would be absorbed instead of reflected back to space. Like most of the climate variables, there's always pesky multiplier effects which makes exact predictions extremely difficult. Yikes!! I think I am going to build an arc.... mj |
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