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Emergency Procedures
How many of you have memorized all the emergency procedures. The only one I
really know is the engine failure procedure. I have to admit, if any other emergency was to develop I think I'm unprepared and it's time I do some re-familiarization of procedures. On a side note, I'm a bit confused about a partial engine failure. Say the engine loses a valve and runs VERY rough. Should I continue flying with that engine in hopes of making a runway, or shut the engine down to prevent it from ripping itself off the airplane and turning me into a large paper weight. Thanks, Ryan |
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"RD" wrote in message
... How many of you have memorized all the emergency procedures. The only one I really know is the engine failure procedure. I have to admit, if any other emergency was to develop I think I'm unprepared and it's time I do some re-familiarization of procedures. I have engine failure and fire on my checklist. I've memorized them, and review them prior to each flight (really). Is that what you mean by 'all'? They're the only ones mentioned in the POH. I constantly review what I'd do in various circumstances, sometimes to the point of obsession. It's probably not healthy, but that's me. I like to think I'd know what to do if I lost a control surface, had one stick on me, had a passenger get seriously ill, became partially incapacitated myself, hit a large bird, got shot at, and just about everything else a paranoid mind can conceive. On a side note, I'm a bit confused about a partial engine failure. Say the engine loses a valve and runs VERY rough. Should I continue flying with that engine in hopes of making a runway, or shut the engine down to prevent it from ripping itself off the airplane and turning me into a large paper weight. Depends, doesn't it? I've never lost a valve, so I've no idea how rough is rough. If the shaking made me very nervous, I'd shut down. If the engine was just rough because of a missing cylinder and the shaking minimal, I'd climb at Vy in anticipation of a full failure. If I was over a dry lake bed or other clear area, I'd shut the engine off anyway and land ASAP. Saving the plane from damage isn't a consideration. |
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Just sounds like good 'preparedness' to me!
I do the same. When I had my first (and only,,, so far) engine failure, it was a positive experience in that (because of having thought about this scenario and planned for it) I was able to go immediately to dispassionately problem-solving and at the same time, setting up the plane for an emergency glide to a suitable landing area (which fortunately was an airport that had been a waypoint on my route, just 7 or 8 nautical miles behind me - I was at 7,500,,, plenty of options for farmland too. -- -- =----- Good Flights! Cecil PP-ASEL Student-IASEL Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond! Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." - Antoine de Saint-Exupery - "We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet" - Cecil Day Lewis - "Tony Cox" wrote in message ink.net... "RD" wrote in message ... How many of you have memorized all the emergency procedures. The only one I really know is the engine failure procedure. I have to admit, if any other emergency was to develop I think I'm unprepared and it's time I do some re-familiarization of procedures. I have engine failure and fire on my checklist. I've memorized them, and review them prior to each flight (really). Is that what you mean by 'all'? They're the only ones mentioned in the POH. I constantly review what I'd do in various circumstances, sometimes to the point of obsession. It's probably not healthy, but that's me. I like to think I'd know what to do if I lost a control surface, had one stick on me, had a passenger get seriously ill, became partially incapacitated myself, hit a large bird, got shot at, and just about everything else a paranoid mind can conceive. On a side note, I'm a bit confused about a partial engine failure. Say the engine loses a valve and runs VERY rough. Should I continue flying with that engine in hopes of making a runway, or shut the engine down to prevent it from ripping itself off the airplane and turning me into a large paper weight. Depends, doesn't it? I've never lost a valve, so I've no idea how rough is rough. If the shaking made me very nervous, I'd shut down. If the engine was just rough because of a missing cylinder and the shaking minimal, I'd climb at Vy in anticipation of a full failure. If I was over a dry lake bed or other clear area, I'd shut the engine off anyway and land ASAP. Saving the plane from damage isn't a consideration. |
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In article , RD wrote:
How many of you have memorized all the emergency procedures. The only one I really know is the engine failure procedure. I have to admit, if any other emergency was to develop I think I'm unprepared and it's time I do some re-familiarization of procedures. On a side note, I'm a bit confused about a partial engine failure. Say the engine loses a valve and runs VERY rough. Should I continue flying with that engine in hopes of making a runway, or shut the engine down to prevent it from ripping itself off the airplane and turning me into a large paper weight. If it is still making power, I am going to use it. I will look to put it on the ground as soon as possible, but I will use the extra power to pick the best spot. I was taught the most complete engine failures usually occur after a power change. |
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RD wrote: How many of you have memorized all the emergency procedures. Well, lessee here. I think I have the engine-out down and the fire-in-the-hole one. I'm also pretty good at the "Ohmygodwherethehellarewe" one. I'm not sure I have the theres-an-f16-off-the-right-wing one memorized, though. What else do we have? On a side note, I'm a bit confused about a partial engine failure. Say the engine loses a valve and runs VERY rough. Should I continue flying with that engine in hopes of making a runway, or shut the engine down to prevent it from ripping itself off the airplane and turning me into a large paper weight. Well, I kept the engine going until I got it down, but I had a runway in sight. If there's really serious reason to believe that the engine will depart the aircraft, get it down ASAP. That plays hell with your W&B. George Patterson This marriage is off to a shaky start. The groom just asked the band to play "Your cheatin' heart", and the bride just requested "Don't come home a'drinkin' with lovin' on your mind". |
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True. If your engine fell off the plane you have serious problems. I don't
think you can fly after that - period. So keeping the engine on board is crucial for W&B. At what point does the vibration necessitate a shutdown? R. -- Thank You, Ryan "G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message ... RD wrote: How many of you have memorized all the emergency procedures. Well, lessee here. I think I have the engine-out down and the fire-in-the-hole one. I'm also pretty good at the "Ohmygodwherethehellarewe" one. I'm not sure I have the theres-an-f16-off-the-right-wing one memorized, though. What else do we have? On a side note, I'm a bit confused about a partial engine failure. Say the engine loses a valve and runs VERY rough. Should I continue flying with that engine in hopes of making a runway, or shut the engine down to prevent it from ripping itself off the airplane and turning me into a large paper weight. Well, I kept the engine going until I got it down, but I had a runway in sight. If there's really serious reason to believe that the engine will depart the aircraft, get it down ASAP. That plays hell with your W&B. George Patterson This marriage is off to a shaky start. The groom just asked the band to play "Your cheatin' heart", and the bride just requested "Don't come home a'drinkin' with lovin' on your mind". |
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RD wrote: True. If your engine fell off the plane you have serious problems. I don't think you can fly after that - period. I read of one case in which they made it down alive. In that case, it was either a 150 or a 172 with a student and CFI on board. They were practicing MCA, so they had the flaps all the way down. Mid-air collison removed the entire firewall-forward. In Texas, IIRC. So keeping the engine on board is crucial for W&B. At what point does the vibration necessitate a shutdown? In my case, one cylinder out of four quit. I have to admit, the vibration was scary, but she hung together until I got it down, and the engine mounts checked out ok later. S'funny. After I shut down, I walked into the FBO. Asked if anyone had a cigarette. My then-fiance looked at me. "What's this 'cigarette' garbage? You don't smoke." George Patterson This marriage is off to a shaky start. The groom just asked the band to play "Your cheatin' heart", and the bride just requested "Don't come home a'drinkin' with lovin' on your mind". |
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"RD" wrote in message
... How many of you have memorized all the emergency procedures. I have memorized all the emergency procedures at least once. I admit, without very frequent recurrent training, it's hard to keep them memorized. For my insurance, I get recurrent training annually, during which the emergency procedures are reviewed, but I've always forgotten something between each annual review. IMHO, emergency procedures should be a part of any BFR, even when you are focusing mostly on other things (like mountaing flying, instrument work, that sort of thing). It's probably a good idea to fly with an instructor at least annually to refresh your memory, even if your insurance company doesn't require it. Airline pilots go over this sort of stuff even more frequently (every six months at least, if I recall), which should tell you something. On a side note, I'm a bit confused about a partial engine failure. Say the engine loses a valve and runs VERY rough. Should I continue flying with that engine in hopes of making a runway, or shut the engine down to prevent it from ripping itself off the airplane and turning me into a large paper weight. It depends. But generally speaking, an internal failure is probably not going to break the motor mounts. A broken prop will, and you should get the engine shut down as fast as is humanly possible in that case (I'd cut the ignition AND the mixture AND the fuel shutoff, in that order). In the case of an internal failure where the engine is still making power, I'd keep the engine going as long as it seemed to be helping more than hurting. If you are thirty miles from the nearest airport, you may feel the engine won't make it that far, and landing with power off-airport may be desirable to losing the engine on the way to the airport. Of course, even if you decide to try to make it to an airport, you should be even more vigilant than usual about knowing where your emergency landing site will be, should the engine give up before you get to the airport. Pete |
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"RD" wrote in message ...
On a side note, I'm a bit confused about a partial engine failure. Say the engine loses a valve and runs VERY rough. Should I continue flying with that engine in hopes of making a runway, or shut the engine down to prevent it from ripping itself off the airplane and turning me into a large paper weight. Something like this is a judgement call. If you think the engine is shaking so violently that it will rip off the mounts, then by all means shut it down. If you can get it to run smoother at a different power setting, then do it. This isn't something you're going to be able to put into a checklist. Generally speaking, making it to a runway is going to provide the best chance for you and your passengers to avoid injury. It will be up to you to judge if the plane will hold together long enough for that to happen, or if an off airport landing would be safer. Keep in mind that a lot dead folks have "almost made it to the runway". John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180) |
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RD wrote:
On a side note, I'm a bit confused about a partial engine failure. Say the engine loses a valve and runs VERY rough. Should I continue flying with that engine in hopes of making a runway, or shut the engine down to prevent it from ripping itself off the airplane and turning me into a large paper weight. Thanks, Ryan Ryan, Been through a partial engine failure where a cylinder ate an exhaust valve. See below my name for what I posted last year. With proper training, it is a "non event". Other then your heart going a thousand beats faster, first and foremost important thing, is FLY THE PLANE. Of course, the general press never hears about good outcomes at an uncontrolled airport. Even with me declaring an emergency, other then calling into FSS after landing, no paperwork. Allen {Posted July 2003} Thought I would share my first emergency.... I was flying from MBO (Madison MS) to L31 (Covington / St Tamminy LA) to meet my sister for dinner, and get some night time hours on the return trip. I have done this trip many times. Left Madison at 5:00 p.m. with an expected arrival at 6:15. I am starting my IFR training, so figured to really focus on holding altitude and heading working on "precision flying". I was doing great all along the trip, and looking ahead, saw major buildups in my path. Called 122.00 and asked for an inflight advisory. Weather was moving SSW and though close, they said I should make my destination. Little did I know the weather would be the least of my concerns. 15 miles from my destination cruising at 3500, I got a horrible vibration throughout the engine. First thing I did was put the carb heat on. Made the vibration even worse. I held the carb heat for about 10 seconds, and turned it off. Immediately saw a "target farm field" should I need it and never let it leave my sight. Next, switched tanks, no change in vibration. Next fuel pump, no change. Next, checked my mags, left, then right, no change in vibration. Next, turned to 121.5 and said, This is Sundowner 12345L declaring an emergency, anybody monitoring the frequency. As I am doing this, I am setting myself up for the "best glide" speed of 78 knots. Guard responds with Sundowner 12345L, go ahead with your emergency. I replied back, I have an extremely rough running engine, I am 12 miles from destination, I have an alternative field in site should I need it, I will be sqawking 7700. I then turn the transponder to 7700. In this short time, I lost 500 valuable feet altitude. As I reduced my power, and enriched the engine, trying different "power" settings, I noticed the vibration reduced somewhat. I watched my VSI, and noticed that I was able to "maintain" a 200 foot descent. Quick math in my head said, I had "15 minutes" flying time if I left my configuration the way it was, and now I was 10 miles from destination. 121.5 gets New Orleans approach, and New Orleans approach gets on 121.5 and tells me to squawk 4026. I acknowledge New Orleans approach, change my transponder to 4026, and said to New Orleans approach, that I have a stable 200 foot descent rate, engine is running rough, and my intention is to proceed on to L31. Once I made my decision, I pretty much left what I had going alone. 4 miles out, I said "New Orleans approach, Sundowner 12345L request to change to 122.80. New Orleans approach said frequency change approved, please call FSS to let us know you are safe on the ground. I said Sundowner 12345. will call FSS after touchdown. I set the radio to 122.80, called in Unicom and said, St Tamminy Sundowner 12345L declaring an emergency, inbound for runway 18 straight in approach. In my nervousnous, New Orleans approach says, Sundowner 12345L, you are still transmitting on 121.5. Duh, helps to change the button from Com 1 to Com 2. So, I switch coms, and repeat my broadcast. 2 miles out, see that I am way too high for straight in, I decided instead of a straight in approach, that I would enter on the downwind leg, and proceed to use runway 36 to lose my altitude. I announce on 122.80, Saint Tamminy, Sundowner 12345L declaring emergency, changing intentions, entering downwind for 36. I left my power settings the way I had it, for the first half of downwind, and then abeam the numbers, I reduced the power ever so slowly, and also enriched the mixture ever so slowly. Engine got rougher, but kept running. Trimmed for landing, extended first set of flaps, and the second set of flaps on downwind. I did this so all I had to do was really concentrate on flying the plane for base and final rather then "finess the plane". Kept my downwind closer to the runway then normal and turn base much sooner then normal. On final, I was 1200 feet above field elevation. On final, I heard that little voice say, better to hit the trees at the end of the runway then the beginning, so I made sure, that I had a higher than normal approach. Seeing I was way high, I put in full right rudder, full left aileron, and pretty much turn the plane perpendicular to the runway. Slip worked great, ears starting popping on descent, and when I cleared the trees, turned forward. Saw I was still too high, returned to the slip, for another 5 to 10 seconds, and then straightened out. Cross the numbers about 25 feet AGL, speed, just above glide speed, cut the throttle to a fast idle. I get major vibration in the engine Started to lower the nose, felt my speed increase, and then raised the nose. Hit ground effect, halfway down the runway, ballooned to about 5 feet above the ground, I raised the nose to bleed off the speed, landed on the last third of the runway. Runway is 2999 feet, so I knew I wasn't stopping at the end of the runway, applied firm brakes, rolled off the runway, with the yoke clear to my chest. I was able to stop about 50 feet after leaving the end of the runway in hard ground with about knee high grass. Engine was really rough, I turn around and limp back to the ramp, airframe and gear fully intact. Go to shut down, and the engine did not want to shut down. It finally shut down. My brother in law was waiting for me at the airport (he is a pilot), we decide to start up the engine to see if he could figure out the problem. Engine was rough on idle, tried to increase RPMs, but the best we could get is 1800, so we shut down. We start calling A&P's around the area, and finally found one that could come out the next day. After describing the symptoms, first thing she thought was a fuel related problem, and asked me the usual questions, did I sump, did I see water, and so on. Nothing in the fuel, I told her runup was absolutely normal. She pokes around the engine, pulling all fuel related hoses, saw lines and screens were clear, so next, she pulled the prop through and found that a cylinder lost all compressions. So, now the obvious occurred, now to find why.... She pulled the cylinder out, and after opening the cylinder, we saw an unbelievable sight. Piston head had shards of metal pounded in it from the exhuast valve, even more amazing was the cylinder walls were smooth, and rings remained intact! She suspected that most of the exhaust valve was ejected out the exhaust pipe as she found fragments of metal through the exhaust manifold but very little in the intake portion of the engine. Problem "solved" so we thought, replace the cylinder, and off I go. She comes back the next day, installed the cylinder, changed the oil, leak tested the engine and closed the cowling, she wanted to go up with me, as she had never been in a Sundowner. It is dark by this time, and while she was getting her tools together, I preflight. I taxi to the runway, call unicom to advise that I was backtaxing to 36. The runway has a runup area at the very end of the runway, I do the runup, all looks good. I get to the end of 36, and the A&P says, before departing, I need you to do a full throttle test. I hold the brakes, put the throttle full forward, and only get 2200 RPM. POH requires 2700. She says, lean it a tad, see what happens. No change to RPM. Lean it more, EGT and CHT goes up, engine starts running "normal rough". Needless to say, not good. She says taxi back to the ramp. No flying tonight. We taxi back, we pull the cowl. She says, the engine is acting like it is getting too much hot air for the RPMs not to go full throttle, reverifies the duct work, and all looks good. Last thing to look at is the carberator as the engine was purring like a kitten, just could not get 2700 RPM. We called it the night (11:00 p.m.) She said, I had a better chance at winning the lotto then what happened to me. The carberator was the top of the line carberator, and she said in the 19 years she has been an A&P, she has never pulled one from an engine. So, today, she pulls the carberator, and she tears it down. She noticed that the lever to the throttle would not push full forward. It would go it's full range. She felt that due to the severe vibration, something in the carberator shook loose, and is preventing the full extension of the throttle cable. So, now I need a new carberator put in. Seeing the forest through the trees, I figure the outcome was as good as it got, considering the catastropic engine problem I experienced. One thing I cannot thank my instructor enough was to instill the "what if scenarios", as when it really happened, I heard him in my mind say, make a decision, stick to it, but most importantly FLY THE PLANE. The only thing I could not do during this entire episode is to pull the POH for emergency procedures. I found as the real thing happens, you don't have time to pull a book, find the chapter, and go to the list. My first instinct was to do what I could remember (I studied my POH big time when I bought the plane, and refer to it frequently, to be sure I know what to do) and FLY THE PLANE. I have an emergency checklist seperate, but in reality, the time it takes to pull the list, get yourself oriented, you lose very valuable time when you are in the plane by yourself. It may have been different if I had a passenger, but when I was alone, I relied on my memory. (which as it turned out was not so bad *smile*. I could have possibly diverted to another airport in Slidell LA in "gliding range" with a longer runway, but the thunderstorms that I saw were over that airport, so I ruled out trying to make it to that airport. In "hangar" talk, I asked some pilots, should I file an ASR report. It was split down the middle, some said yes, some said no. I am leaning on filing a report. Allen Lessons Learned: Take those engine failure lessons seriously! One never knows when it will happen. Don't hesitate to declare an emergency! No sooner then I released the mic button, guard was answering my call. For my experience, no warning was indicated, but thats not to say engines don't give warnings. After the emergency (10 hours later), I could not get the mag check to pass, so I "listened" to the engine, turn back to the ramp, and shut it down. My next "phone call" was to the A&P to get the engine overhauled. Engine had 2010 hours and TBO was 2000. Even though compressions were good, turned out, one cylinder was getting "wet", flooding both plugs, thus the decision for overhaul. I now learned to make my pattern "tigher" as if the engine is about to fail. I make my downwind closer to the runway, and final no more then 1/4 mile from the numbers. |
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