Winch Way Is Up !!

I have only just found the posting with the link to pictures of the
Permian Soaring winch [
http://www.permiansoaring.us/ ] and was a bit concerned that there is
apparently no guillotine, to be able to sever the cable in the event of
a hang-up at the glider end. Is there one and it is just not visible?
If not, what is the emergency procedure to ditich the cable?

There has been one fatality that I know of in the UK (maybe more) when
the release hook on the glider failed to operate and the glider flew in
an arc pivoting round the winch until it hit the ground. There have
been escapes where the cable wrapped round the axle or caught in some
other part of the glider (e.g. diving under the cable and getting it
over a wing, when there was a power failure or whatever) and the
guillotine saved it from being a disaster.

Did the operators pick up from experienced winch users how best to set
up the cable - hosepipe, weak links, swivels etc.?

Are swivels necessary and/or beneficial with the synthetic cable?

Is the winch earthed before use?

Not trying to teach grandmother to suck eggs, but anyone starting up use
of a winch needs to find a lot of know-how from others - or learn it the
hard way. My club started using winches again after a long gap, would
not pick up expertise from others, and had some hard lessons,
fortunately without major accidents but certainly with some near misses.
Like the guy who had a huge electric shock getting down from the cab one
day and then realised why there was an earthing (grounding) spike
provided.

Chris N.

Gerritjan wrote:

http://terlet.org/fotosbig/p522.jpg

More data please!

This is a 6-drum "van Gelder" diesel winch as used by several european
clubs....

Several european clubs would *dream* of such a winch. Most have a double
drum tost or home build winch, some 20 or more years old, only kept running
by some experienced mechanics who know the vital parts in the dark night.
Eggert

"soarski" wrote in message

Here is an electric one! Bill.

http://www.beepworld.de/members28/onkelmaggus/

Dieter

I looked this one over carefully. It seems like a good idea using the
battery pack as a buffer to store up energy from the power source between
launches. It means that the primary source of electricity can be much
smaller than if the winch motor had to be directly powered from the mains
(Or a diesel generator set.) Modern digital power controls are very precise
but, it's a costly approach.

Then I thought about servicing the 570 Volt battery pack - yikes! One wrong
move and you get fried. I've heard harrowing stories told by old
submariners about servicing diesel boat battery packs - no thanks, not me.

Direct diesel power delivered through a Voith fluid coupling still seems the
best way to go. At least when you shut down a diesel. it's inert and safe.

Bill Daniels

Chris Nicholas wrote in message ...
I have only just found the posting with the link to pictures of the
Permian Soaring winch [
http://www.permiansoaring.us/ ] and was a bit concerned that there is
apparently no guillotine, to be able to sever the cable in the event of
a hang-up at the glider end. Is there one and it is just not visible?
If not, what is the emergency procedure to ditich the cable?

I am looking for a dependable way to cut Plasma rope. A guillotine
will be installed as soon as this question is answered. Any ideas
would be appreciated.

There has been one fatality that I know of in the UK (maybe more) when
the release hook on the glider failed to operate and the glider flew in
an arc pivoting round the winch until it hit the ground. There have
been escapes where the cable wrapped round the axle or caught in some
other part of the glider (e.g. diving under the cable and getting it
over a wing, when there was a power failure or whatever) and the
guillotine saved it from being a disaster.

Did the operators pick up from experienced winch users how best to set
up the cable - hosepipe, weak links, swivels etc.?

We used what information was available to us. Derek Piggot's book
on winch launching is a must read. Proper setups are very important.
Sadly, they are not widely understood or perhaps respected in the
USA. I had one very well respected sailplane supplier ask me.
" Why do you want to use color coded tost links, let me sell you
some certified rope" Been there done that rope no worky. At least
not as dependable as necessary. He did sell me what I wanted and
guess what no more weak link breaks.
The USA is just having a little trouble getting up to speed on
winch launching. Thankfully we do not have to invent this wheel
just learn from those who have gone before us.



Are swivels necessary and/or beneficial with the synthetic cable?

No swivels needed with hollow braided ropes.

Is the winch earthed before use?

Static? That's new to me. Thanks-

Not trying to teach grandmother to suck eggs, but anyone starting up use
of a winch needs to find a lot of know-how from others - or learn it the
hard way. My club started using winches again after a long gap, would
not pick up expertise from others, and had some hard lessons,
fortunately without major accidents but certainly with some near misses.
Like the guy who had a huge electric shock getting down from the cab one
day and then realised why there was an earthing (grounding) spike
provided.

Good advice my winch launching friend.

Craig-
Chris N.

Craig Freeman wrote:

I am looking for a dependable way to cut Plasma rope. A guillotine
will be installed as soon as this question is answered. Any ideas
would be appreciated.

You may want to have a look at
http://www.aec-landau.de/projekte/PE-Seil/vortrag.htm

They have modified their winch to cut their PE cable. You find the email
address of the author at the end of that page.
Eggert

Eggert --

You've been such a graet help to us I hate to ask one more favor, but
could you translate these pages for us poor old igorant cowboys?

Computer translations are hilarious.

Thanks,

Boob Johnson

Eggert Ehmke wrote:

Craig Freeman wrote:

I am looking for a dependable way to cut Plasma rope. A guillotine
will be installed as soon as this question is answered. Any ideas
would be appreciated.

You may want to have a look at
http://www.aec-landau.de/projekte/PE-Seil/vortrag.htm

They have modified their winch to cut their PE cable. You find the email
address of the author at the end of that page.
Eggert

Bob Johnson wrote:
Actually, Craig is being too modest. In a few months of spare time work this
spring, he single-handedly engineered and built a double drum machine...

Whats the point of the second drum? Great pics, BTW).

Tony V. (aero tows ~1300, winch tows)

There are some very nice advantages to a winch (wouldn't think twice
about getting a launch even if the weather does not look so great, we
had some great fun launching to landing circuit just for the heck of
it when it was raining last summer). We've got a package deal in our
club, unlimited launches for a reasonable price. It's just very
economical (make no mistake though, I do appreciate the convenience of
an aerotow as well). Still, a winch launch will teach you how to make
the best of the conditions as you don't have much time to find a
thermal.

We've got a "factory built" winch from Germany a few years back, top
of the notch with turbos and whatnot- if you're interested, have a
look at http://www.saunalahti.fi/kily/paasivu.htm. Click on "kalusto",
the fourth button on the left frame and then "vintturi" on the right
frame. Sorry, it's all in Finnish :-)

Kind regards,

Antti

Antti --

I really appreciate that photo. It appears to be a twin drum machine
with right angle drives to each drum. Do you know how the builders got
that power to go around the corner, that is, does it use a conventional
automotive-type differential, angle gears, or what?

Thanks again,

BJ

Antti Glad wrote:

There are some very nice advantages to a winch (wouldn't think twice
about getting a launch even if the weather does not look so great, we
had some great fun launching to landing circuit just for the heck of
it when it was raining last summer). We've got a package deal in our
club, unlimited launches for a reasonable price. It's just very
economical (make no mistake though, I do appreciate the convenience of
an aerotow as well). Still, a winch launch will teach you how to make
the best of the conditions as you don't have much time to find a
thermal.

We've got a "factory built" winch from Germany a few years back, top
of the notch with turbos and whatnot- if you're interested, have a
look at http://www.saunalahti.fi/kily/paasivu.htm. Click on "kalusto",
the fourth button on the left frame and then "vintturi" on the right
frame. Sorry, it's all in Finnish :-)

Kind regards,

Antti

Tony --

Well that's a long story. Right now it balances the view! 8)

BJ

Tony Verhulst wrote:

Bob Johnson wrote:
Actually, Craig is being too modest. In a few months of spare time work this
spring, he single-handedly engineered and built a double drum machine...

Whats the point of the second drum? Great pics, BTW).

Tony V. (aero tows ~1300, winch tows)