Carrying Skis in a Single...

Hey Guys,

I'm in plane-search mode after recently passing my check flight.

One of the number one uses I want for the aircraft is to be able to
make VFR flights up to Tahoe in the winter for ski trips (hopefully
regularly, as the weather permits).

As such, I have a pretty basic question-

What singles would you reccommend to be able to carry a load of 2 (or
possibly 3, with one being my very petite (105lb) Fiancee) people and a
load of baggage and Skis (the big issues imho) from The Bay Area to
Tahoe...

the plane that initially grabbed me was the Cessna 177A or B... Fixed
gear, a huge cabin (By inexpensive single standards), and 1000lbs of
payload (figure 250 each for passengers + baggage, and a
more-than-adequate 250lb fuel load).

Unfortunately, Cardinals seem to be be suffering a re-surgence of
demand lately... And the two I've looked at so far have had noticable
Wingtip Spar corrosion issues (although one owner swears he will fix it
his cost before selling).

Other options-

Piper Commanche 180... I trained in a 160, I have to say I like the
type (ergonomics and feel) FAR more than the Cessna Birds (177 is ok,
but I physically have issues properly operating the pedals of the 172
because I have such long legs, and the 182 for some reason doesn't
interest me in the slightest (something about the whole 'flying truck'
thing is completely unappealing). About once a week I completely fall
in infatuation with Moonies, with Several M20C's and M20E's being in my
45-55k price range... but then I remember that I want to be able to
share the fun with other people too:-P

I guess my question is- A- Have any of you found a comfortable/safe way
to carry skis in a Commanche 180? How about a Cherokee 180 (and if so,
how reliable is its Gear system?)

Is there any chance in hell that 3 people plus a weekends worth of gear
would fit into a M20C/E? IS there some other reason I should avoid them
(other than my natural tendency to prefer Fixed gear for
cost/maintenence reasons).

Anything else I should consider?

Thanks.

Single-engine from the California Bay area to Tahoe during
ski season [winter] requires a big enough airplane and
useful load to carry fuel, passengers, ski clothing, skis,
and survival equipment. Suggest a Cherokee Six or similar.
They is probably an STC for a tube baggage extender that
will be hung in the tail cone to carry the skis.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"EridanMan" wrote in message
ps.com...
| Hey Guys,
|
| I'm in plane-search mode after recently passing my check
flight.
|
| One of the number one uses I want for the aircraft is to
be able to
| make VFR flights up to Tahoe in the winter for ski trips
(hopefully
| regularly, as the weather permits).
|
| As such, I have a pretty basic question-
|
| What singles would you reccommend to be able to carry a
load of 2 (or
| possibly 3, with one being my very petite (105lb) Fiancee)
people and a
| load of baggage and Skis (the big issues imho) from The
Bay Area to
| Tahoe...
|
| the plane that initially grabbed me was the Cessna 177A or
B... Fixed
| gear, a huge cabin (By inexpensive single standards), and
1000lbs of
| payload (figure 250 each for passengers + baggage, and a
| more-than-adequate 250lb fuel load).
|
| Unfortunately, Cardinals seem to be be suffering a
re-surgence of
| demand lately... And the two I've looked at so far have
had noticable
| Wingtip Spar corrosion issues (although one owner swears
he will fix it
| his cost before selling).
|
| Other options-
|
| Piper Commanche 180... I trained in a 160, I have to say I
like the
| type (ergonomics and feel) FAR more than the Cessna Birds
(177 is ok,
| but I physically have issues properly operating the pedals
of the 172
| because I have such long legs, and the 182 for some reason
doesn't
| interest me in the slightest (something about the whole
'flying truck'
| thing is completely unappealing). About once a week I
completely fall
| in infatuation with Moonies, with Several M20C's and
M20E's being in my
| 45-55k price range... but then I remember that I want to
be able to
| share the fun with other people too:-P
|
| I guess my question is- A- Have any of you found a
comfortable/safe way
| to carry skis in a Commanche 180? How about a Cherokee
180 (and if so,
| how reliable is its Gear system?)
|
| Is there any chance in hell that 3 people plus a weekends
worth of gear
| would fit into a M20C/E? IS there some other reason I
should avoid them
| (other than my natural tendency to prefer Fixed gear for
| cost/maintenence reasons).
|
| Anything else I should consider?
|
| Thanks.
|

("Jim Macklin" wrote)
Single-engine from the California Bay area to Tahoe during ski season
[winter] requires a big enough airplane and useful load to carry fuel,
passengers, ski clothing, skis, and survival
equipment.


Would a Navion fit the bill?


Montblack

Don't know about the tail cone size and whether there is a
baggage modification. It probably has the weight capacity,
but I'm not sure about the seating and baggage space.

There is always FedEx and UPS.


Just remember that you need warm survival clothes, ski wear
is not adequate for staying alive after a forced landing. I
don't recall the name, but a decade ago, maybe a little
longer the president of a pilot group made a perfect forced
landing on a lake. Everyone on the plane was uninjured and
froze to death.



--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Montblack" wrote in
message ...
| ("Jim Macklin" wrote)
| Single-engine from the California Bay area to Tahoe
during ski season
| [winter] requires a big enough airplane and useful load
to carry fuel,
| passengers, ski clothing, skis, and survival
| equipment.
|
|
| Would a Navion fit the bill?
|
|
| Montblack
|

On Sat, 6 May 2006 03:13:47 -0500, "Jim Macklin"
wrote:

Just remember that you need warm survival clothes,

My flight instructor told me: "Just remember that any crosscountry
flight is volunteering for an overnight in the woods."

And that's in New Hampshire



-- all the best, Dan Ford

email: usenet AT danford DOT net

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

Even if you don't smoke, carry a Zippo that has just been
refilled with fluid and has spare flints. Even if you don't
like knives, carry at least two. BTW, don't carry the Zippo
in your pants pocket, the vapor will burn your skin, use
some type of belt carrier.

A handheld GPS may get you to the nearest help.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Cub Driver" usenet AT danford DOT net wrote in message
...
| On Sat, 6 May 2006 03:13:47 -0500, "Jim Macklin"
| wrote:
|
| Just remember that you need warm survival clothes,
|
| My flight instructor told me: "Just remember that any
crosscountry
| flight is volunteering for an overnight in the woods."
|
| And that's in New Hampshire
|
|
|
| -- all the best, Dan Ford
|
| email: usenet AT danford DOT net
|
| Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
| Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
| In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

Montblack wrote:

Would a Navion fit the bill?


The Navion has plenty of bulk available. You might even get
the skis in an unmodified plane. The depth of the baggage
compartment is about three feet and the rear seats (at least
in my B model) will fold down to extend that into the passenger
compartment and you can further carry longer skis up between
the front seats.

I have been following this thread and the best suggestion made so far is for
the pilot to take a serious mountain flying course. Hopefully one that would
include 4 place aircraft in the 180-300hp range. Both Truckee and South Lake
Tahoe can be pretty unforgiving both in summer and winter (albeit for
different reasons). I have experienced -500fpm rate of climb in a C182 with
1/2 fuel and two on board 65Knot IAS in May departing Truckee due to
mountain wave activity. From the bay area to Tahoe door to door is about the
same amount of time whether you drive or fly. If the roads are closed due to
a storm I don't think you want to be in a C172, arrow or Navion above those
roads.
Howard
C182P

On 2006-05-08, Howard Nelson wrote:
different reasons). I have experienced -500fpm rate of climb in a C182 with
1/2 fuel and two on board 65Knot IAS in May departing Truckee due to

From someone who flies gliders - do NOT fly slowly in sink. It will just
prolong the amount of time you spend in the sink (resulting in a greater
altitude loss). You will of course have to work out the speed to fly for
your particular aircraft -vs- the observed sink rate to determine the
best speed to fly.

For example, imagine a plane that climbs at 1000 fpm in still air at
60kts, and 700 fpm at 120kts.

You're at full power and in sink at 60kts, and you're showing 500fpm
down. Imagine the sink lasts for 4 miles. It'll take you 4 minutes (1
mile per minute) to get through, and you will lose 2000 feet. The air is
sinking at 1500fpm.

If you instead fly this particular plane at 120 knots through the same
sink, you'll only spend 2 minutes to get through it, and your rate of
descent will be 800 fpm - and you'll come out of the sink having lost
1600 feet (and therefore be 400 feet higher than if you'd flown through
the sink slowly).

The example here is obviously contrived (for easy calculation) - but you
can work out some scenarios based on the performance of your plane to
figure out the best speed to fly in sink.

--
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.
Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de

Yeah, try ski blades. They'll fit in any GA airplane. I didn't think I'd
like them, but they are great. I bought a set for my two sons and myself
this past fall. It's like power steering was added to a regular set of
skis. And they're cheap, too.

"EridanMan" wrote in message
ps.com...
Hey Guys,

I'm in plane-search mode after recently passing my check flight.

One of the number one uses I want for the aircraft is to be able to
make VFR flights up to Tahoe in the winter for ski trips (hopefully
regularly, as the weather permits).

As such, I have a pretty basic question-

What singles would you reccommend to be able to carry a load of 2 (or
possibly 3, with one being my very petite (105lb) Fiancee) people and a
load of baggage and Skis (the big issues imho) from The Bay Area to
Tahoe...

the plane that initially grabbed me was the Cessna 177A or B... Fixed
gear, a huge cabin (By inexpensive single standards), and 1000lbs of
payload (figure 250 each for passengers + baggage, and a
more-than-adequate 250lb fuel load).

Unfortunately, Cardinals seem to be be suffering a re-surgence of
demand lately... And the two I've looked at so far have had noticable
Wingtip Spar corrosion issues (although one owner swears he will fix it
his cost before selling).

Other options-

Piper Commanche 180... I trained in a 160, I have to say I like the
type (ergonomics and feel) FAR more than the Cessna Birds (177 is ok,
but I physically have issues properly operating the pedals of the 172
because I have such long legs, and the 182 for some reason doesn't
interest me in the slightest (something about the whole 'flying truck'
thing is completely unappealing). About once a week I completely fall
in infatuation with Moonies, with Several M20C's and M20E's being in my
45-55k price range... but then I remember that I want to be able to
share the fun with other people too:-P

I guess my question is- A- Have any of you found a comfortable/safe way
to carry skis in a Commanche 180? How about a Cherokee 180 (and if so,
how reliable is its Gear system?)

Is there any chance in hell that 3 people plus a weekends worth of gear
would fit into a M20C/E? IS there some other reason I should avoid them
(other than my natural tendency to prefer Fixed gear for
cost/maintenence reasons).

Anything else I should consider?

Thanks.