CFI oral intel

NW_Pilot was thinking very hard :
"Gezellig" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 29 May 2008 07:21:20 -0700, gatt wrote:

One of the folks around the hangar took his CFI practical last week. He
had his AGI so they threw out all of the Fundamentals of Instruction
stuff entirely during the oral.

A question the examiner asked him: "You're flying cross-country and
trimmed at 110 knots. You die, and the engine quits. At what airspeed
will the aircraft strike the ground?

That's easy, gatt. I wouldn't know.

Or care.

That summs it upp....

I have to admit, it was a humerous dodge to a question that I wrote
down, researched, then found out I was wrong. :'(

The good news I am still a student!

Forever. :-)

Dudley Henriques laid this down on his screen :
Gezellig wrote:
Dudley Henriques presented the following explanation :
A slipped cross control stall as relates to spin entry is FAR less
pro-spin than a skid entry.

Dudley, I don't understand why that is? Are you assuming 110 nauts?



Not sure what you're asking as the 110 kts is connected to the other
question, not the cross controlled stall question as referenced above, but
taking a guess......if you check question number one about dying at the
controls, the trim speed given was 110 kts. :-)

lol

I got my answer from your other post. I got on track from the
discussion, I have no idea where I got off track on the 110 nauts.

I revel in my ineptitude. It makes me endearing. I hope I get laid
because of it.

No, forget that. I don't need another bimbette in my life.

Gezellig wrote:

Not sure what you're asking as the 110 kts is connected to the other
question, not the cross controlled stall question as referenced above,
but taking a guess......if you check question number one about dying
at the controls, the trim speed given was 110 kts. :-)

lol

I got my answer from your other post. I got on track from the
discussion, I have no idea where I got off track on the 110 nauts.

I revel in my ineptitude. It makes me endearing. I hope I get laid
because of it.

No, forget that. I don't need another bimbette in my life.



Usenet will do that to you sometimes, although I have to admit it hasn't
gotten me laid yet :-)
--
Dudley Henriques

Michael Ash was thinking very hard :
In rec.aviation.student gatt wrote:
A question the examiner asked him: "You're flying cross-country and
trimmed at 110 knots. You die, and the engine quits. At what airspeed
will the aircraft strike the ground?"

In addition to all the other factors discussed, your airspeed will be
slightly lower than what you had trimmed due to the weight of your soul
departing the aircraft.

Damn, I didn't take that in the weight balance shift forward and all
that...

OK, so I don't really believe that, but I'd love to see what the guy would
say if you told him that answer!

Stop that. Student pilots need no more confusion than I already have.
lol

In rec.aviation.student Gezellig wrote:
Michael Ash was thinking very hard :
In rec.aviation.student gatt wrote:
A question the examiner asked him: "You're flying cross-country and
trimmed at 110 knots. You die, and the engine quits. At what airspeed
will the aircraft strike the ground?"

In addition to all the other factors discussed, your airspeed will be
slightly lower than what you had trimmed due to the weight of your soul
departing the aircraft.

Damn, I didn't take that in the weight balance shift forward and all
that...

OK, so I don't really believe that, but I'd love to see what the guy would
say if you told him that answer!

Stop that. Student pilots need no more confusion than I already have.

Joking aside, if your straps were loose enough that you could slump
forward, that *would* affect your CG which would in turn affect your
trimmed airspeed.

There's another issue that I just thought of that I don't think anyone has
mentioned yet, though. Won't you get into a graveyard (bad terminology for
this scenario, as you're already dead) spiral? After all, if you could
stay straight and level just by taking your hands off the controls you
wouldn't need to fear IMC with no gyroscopic instruments. So it seems that
if you start high enough, the correct answer to this question would be
whatever the terminal velocity of your fuselage is without its wings. Am I
off base here?

--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon

Everyone who has replied has made one significant and incorrect assumption.
I would have replied, "Really really fast, yellow arc at least, perhaps at
or above Vne depending on the aircraft."

Why? Because all posts have made the (probably) incorrect assumption that
the aircraft somehow fly wings-levels to its demise. That just won't
happen. Forget dihedral, that won't stop it going into a spiral. Another
factor worth considering is that when the pilot dies, there is a really good
chance that the pilot will fall forward and possibly push on the yoke. With
a side stick, this will probably cause a bank as the pilot pulls sideways on
the stick.

Anyway, my point is, is that since no wings leveler or autopilot was
mentioned, it is almost guaranteed that the aircraft would enter a spiral
and trim speed does not apply in a spiral.

Hilton


"gatt" wrote in message
. ..

One of the folks around the hangar took his CFI practical last week. He
had his AGI so they threw out all of the Fundamentals of Instruction stuff
entirely during the oral.

A question the examiner asked him: "You're flying cross-country and
trimmed at 110 knots. You die, and the engine quits. At what airspeed will
the aircraft strike the ground?"

Another was, "You're turning final and you enter a cross-control stall. Is
it better to be in a slip, or a skid?"

-c

Hilton wrote:
Everyone who has replied has made one significant and incorrect assumption.
I would have replied, "Really really fast, yellow arc at least, perhaps at
or above Vne depending on the aircraft."

Why? Because all posts have made the (probably) incorrect assumption that
the aircraft somehow fly wings-levels to its demise. That just won't
happen. Forget dihedral, that won't stop it going into a spiral. Another
factor worth considering is that when the pilot dies, there is a really good
chance that the pilot will fall forward and possibly push on the yoke. With
a side stick, this will probably cause a bank as the pilot pulls sideways on
the stick.

Anyway, my point is, is that since no wings leveler or autopilot was
mentioned, it is almost guaranteed that the aircraft would enter a spiral
and trim speed does not apply in a spiral.

Hilton


"gatt" wrote in message
. ..
One of the folks around the hangar took his CFI practical last week. He
had his AGI so they threw out all of the Fundamentals of Instruction stuff
entirely during the oral.

A question the examiner asked him: "You're flying cross-country and
trimmed at 110 knots. You die, and the engine quits. At what airspeed will
the aircraft strike the ground?"

Another was, "You're turning final and you enter a cross-control stall. Is
it better to be in a slip, or a skid?"

-c


Really getting nitty here Hilton :-)

With the engine dead, and assuming good rigging, there is no specific
reason to assume a spiral. The initial question specified the engine
"quit". Again, assuming proper trim and no aerodynamic forces to induce
bank, the aircraft for all practical purposes anyway, can be assumed a
straight path into the ground.

Take out the proper trim and an idling engine and perhaps you have a
case for a spiral. Also, few aircraft are rigged perfectly so that also
could be a factor for a spiral.

Other than these things being present and considering the "spirit" of
the question, trim speed would be the answer for ground impact in my
opinion.

--
Dudley Henriques

"Michael Ash" wrote in message
...
In rec.aviation.student gatt wrote:
A question the examiner asked him: "You're flying cross-country and
trimmed at 110 knots. You die, and the engine quits. At what airspeed
will the aircraft strike the ground?"

In addition to all the other factors discussed, your airspeed will be
slightly lower than what you had trimmed due to the weight of your soul
departing the aircraft.

OK, so I don't really believe that, but I'd love to see what the guy would
say if you told him that answer!


Your airspeed may also be slightly lower due to the weight of the fuel that
has departed the aircraft (through the engine)

On Thu, 29 May 2008 07:21:20 -0700, gatt
wrote:


One of the folks around the hangar took his CFI practical last week. He
had his AGI so they threw out all of the Fundamentals of Instruction
stuff entirely during the oral.

A question the examiner asked him: "You're flying cross-country and
trimmed at 110 knots. You die, and the engine quits. At what airspeed
will the aircraft strike the ground?"

Another was, "You're turning final and you enter a cross-control stall.
Is it better to be in a slip, or a skid?"

-c

first question the answer is 110 knots or thereabouts. when the engine
stops the aircraft will slow, lift will reduce and the aircraft will
enter a gentle dive, as the speed stabilises with the new engine power
(gravity) the aircraft will return to its trimmed speed and the angle
of decent will adjust until the aircraft is back in trim equilibrium.

second question is interesting. the two conditions will tend to cause
a stall in the opposite wing. so which is better to stall with the
inner wing first or the outer wing first?
skidding will stall the inner wing so the stall will add to the
already existing forces causing the turn so you will spin.
slipping will stall the outer wing so you will roll out of the turn
into a dive.
I think I'd rather stall in a slip.

Stealth Pilot

On Thu, 29 May 2008 19:28:41 -0400, Dudley Henriques
wrote:

gatt wrote:


Another one for the archives. Thanks, Dudley.

I got the information about the question second-hand (the candidate told
the chief instructor who told me) so I'm not sure exactly what the
examiner as getting at. Now I'm really curious. It probably boils down
to the difference between a cross-control stall behavior in a slip
versus a skid. The FSDO examiners out here really hammer CFI candidates
on aerodynamics, or so I'm told, and less on the FOI if the candidate
appears reasonably capable of teaching. Seems appropriate enough.

-c

You're welcome.

What they probably want is be assured that the CFI fully understands the
dangers involved with skidding turns, especially at low altitude.

To do it right, the CFI should use the necessity to impart this
information to discuss and teach cross controlled stall in ALL
configurations so that a BETTER understanding of the various
ramifications involved be more understood.

oh bull**** dudley. they ask oddball questions like these to sort out
the rote learners who have swatted up all the past paper answers but
dont actually know diddly squat, and like MX, have no actual
understanding of what they sprout.

you can work out the answers from first principles if you actually
understand the fundamentals.

Stealth Pilot