Silver Distance Denied

I know the rules are the rules but I find this a little strange. If I were
to take a launch, fly 50km in any direction and plonk my glider in a field,
provided I had only a barograph and not a logger I could quite legally
claim a silver C.
If I take a launch with a logger and declare a TP 50km away, and then land
in a field 50km from my airfield in the opposite direction I still qualify
for a silver. The net result if I stay aloft and make it back I do not
qualify, penalised for exceeding the requirement.
In the UK you have to hold a full silver before you can train as an
instructor. Having spent many years selecting instructors immediately after
their solo I know what a crock some rules are.

On Thursday, April 2, 2015 at 7:15:05 AM UTC-4, Don Johnstone wrote:
I know the rules are the rules but I find this a little strange. If I were
to take a launch, fly 50km in any direction and plonk my glider in a field,
provided I had only a barograph and not a logger I could quite legally
claim a silver C.
If I take a launch with a logger and declare a TP 50km away, and then land
in a field 50km from my airfield in the opposite direction I still qualify
for a silver. The net result if I stay aloft and make it back I do not
qualify, penalised for exceeding the requirement.
In the UK you have to hold a full silver before you can train as an
instructor. Having spent many years selecting instructors immediately after
their solo I know what a crock some rules are.

One can do a Silver distance by declaring remote start and remote finish at least 50k apart with altitude loss calculated from release(not start) to landing.
One of our girls did it in my Libelle last summer getting her distance leg with a 140k or so flight. The same day her dad did 75 k straight out in his 1-26. I'd say they were about equivalent flights.
UH

One point that I think is being missed with the discussions about Silver Badge and above -

If you don't do the C and Bronze badges, you miss the training required for them - simulated off field landings without an altimeter (both dual and solo), ability to do very accurate (and short) landings, and the cross country knowledge required to pass the Bronze written test.

One needs this training just in case one of those big flights doesn't work out so well. Plus, this training is hugely valuable if you want to fly in contests.

I am very thankful for the instructors who encouraged me to work hard to get those badges done.

Lou

On Wednesday, April 1, 2015 at 2:49:29 PM UTC-7, wrote:
Look at this as a blessing in disguise. In future years, you would be embarrassed having a Silver badge leg from Minden. Diamond altitude is the only badge leg a self respecting pilot would take from Minden.

I disagree. Fly where you want to or where you can. Just keep at it.

The badge process is part of the learning process. It emphasizes preparation and submission of acceptable information, along with being able to do the actual flight. It also prepares the pilot for the higher hurdles when more is at stake, like the Gold Badge, Diamonds and record flights.

Minden has a special meaning in our family. The mother landed at Minden (1967 or 68) to get her Silver distance; the place was very empty then. Dad was the first to get all three diamonds a single flight(1969). I got my Diamond Alt. there (1990). Many other great flights, too.

Mike Newgard

On Friday, April 3, 2015 at 3:22:27 AM UTC+13, MNLou wrote:
One point that I think is being missed with the discussions about Silver Badge and above -

If you don't do the C and Bronze badges, you miss the training required for them - simulated off field landings without an altimeter (both dual and solo), ability to do very accurate (and short) landings, and the cross country knowledge required to pass the Bronze written test.

You are not permitted to go more than 5 miles from the field without completing those things!!

On 4/2/2015 8:22 AM, MNLou wrote:
One point that I think is being missed with the discussions about Silver
Badge and above -

If you don't do the C and Bronze badges, you miss the training required for
them - simulated off field landings without an altimeter (both dual and
solo), ability to do very accurate (and short) landings, and the cross
country knowledge required to pass the Bronze written test.

One needs this training just in case one of those big flights doesn't work
out so well. Plus, this training is hugely valuable if you want to fly in
contests.

I am very thankful for the instructors who encouraged me to work hard to
get those badges done.

Lou


"I'll second Lou's point."

You've gotta learn to walk before you attempt learning to run definitely
applies to XC soaring in my experience - personal and observational since
~'73. In hindsight, I was blessed to experience sensible pre-XC training "way
back when" I'd no clue what it was all about. Back then "it all began with the
Silver C badge," i.e. no formalized pre-Silver formal training syllabus. It
was presented to me - and I lapped it up in eager ignorance - as, "Here's the
basics of what you'll need to know to safely - and certainly unsuccessfully,
at times (i.e. landout required) - fly XC.

Since then, I've seen more than one XC wannabe attempt to run before they
learned to walk, which is to say attempt to buy L/D as their means of avoiding
landouts. (More than told me in all seriousness, "I don't intend to land out;
my L/D will get me to an airport.") Some were ultimately successful; some
seemed to scare themselves out of the sport from (it seemed to me) vague
feelings of unease; some broke their gliders. Those that were successful
ultimately learned of the need to walk despite their original intentions.

For the skeptical, I'm not suggesting that even if a person *does* learn to
walk first, that their XC adventures are guaranteed to be without negative
landout trauma. Just that learning to walk first is the wiser approach by far.

As to personal bona fides, SSA members can verify I never officially bagged
more than 2/3 of my Silver Badge (guess which leg is missing!), while lotsa
folks on both sides of retrieves can testify to my walking and running experience.

Have fun out there!!! (I'd say "Be safe, too," but fun and safety are merely
opposite sides of the same coin...no need to be overly redundant by repeating
myself more than once!)

Bob W.

It's not that hard to do a 500K OLC flight without ever getting more
than about 25 miles from the home airport. At least that is so at
Moriarty. It's more difficult to do a 300K Gold distance/Diamond goal
triangle. Just sayin...

Why encourage people to not try?

On 4/1/2015 10:39 PM, Ramy wrote:
Hmm, if someone shows up without a silver badge but with 500km flights documented on OLC those clubs wouldn't count that? I doubt it.

Ramy

--
Dan Marotta

I think that's a good idea, Don. An instructor should know how to fly
and teach cross country. In the US there are plenty of instructors who
don't fly cross country and can't teach someone how. I, for one, had to
learn by listening, asking questions, following more experienced glider
pilots, and stretching my wings on my own.

On 4/2/2015 5:06 AM, Don Johnstone wrote:
I know the rules are the rules but I find this a little strange. If I were
to take a launch, fly 50km in any direction and plonk my glider in a field,
provided I had only a barograph and not a logger I could quite legally
claim a silver C.
If I take a launch with a logger and declare a TP 50km away, and then land
in a field 50km from my airfield in the opposite direction I still qualify
for a silver. The net result if I stay aloft and make it back I do not
qualify, penalised for exceeding the requirement.
In the UK you have to hold a full silver before you can train as an
instructor. Having spent many years selecting instructors immediately after
their solo I know what a crock some rules are.


--
Dan Marotta

On Thu, 02 Apr 2015 11:06:53 +0000, Don Johnstone
wrote:

I know the rules are the rules but I find this a little strange. If I were
to take a launch, fly 50km in any direction and plonk my glider in a field,
provided I had only a barograph and not a logger I could quite legally
claim a silver C.
If I take a launch with a logger and declare a TP 50km away, and then land
in a field 50km from my airfield in the opposite direction I still qualify
for a silver. The net result if I stay aloft and make it back I do not
qualify, penalised for exceeding the requirement.
In the UK you have to hold a full silver before you can train as an
instructor. Having spent many years selecting instructors immediately after
their solo I know what a crock some rules are.

Not so. GPS landout is allowed. If you have logged a point more than
50km from your release point or declared start and that point
satisfies the 1% rule then you can claim a silver distance. There is
no requirement to landout. You can fly home if you wish.

Basil

The badge process has withstood the test of time in building confidence and skill. It took me three tries to finally get my diamond out and return. I learned much from each flight, plus the fights got me flying further from hm each time. On the first attempt the Cambridge data logger recorded points on either side of the turn point quadrant and if you drew a line between the points the line would go through the quadrant, but it was rejected for not hanging a Piont in the quadrant. The second time, the logger lost GPS signal for about four minutes while I was at the turn Piont. I was heading for home when the logger re-established contact, I turned around and repeated the turn point but the claim was rejected as I had lost GPS and thus no logging for four minutes. It was obvious to Judy Lincoln that on both flights I completed the required distance but I was not in technical compliance.. So I flew it a third time! I had not been flying 500 k's more like 200k's, each summer weekend, all the sudden I did three 500 k's on three successive weekends. I think not getting the badge on the first two attempts was responsible for seriously expanding my range. If your badge claim is denied, try try again, you will learn.