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#21
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Knowing when you are overflying something
Gig 601XL Builder writes:
Then I really have to ask, "Why in God's name did you ask the fraking question?" Because I may have to say "over XYZ" when reporting my position, or heed instructions from ATC to "cross XYZ" and I wanted to know how to figure out when I'm actually over something. I don't recall asking it in God's name, however. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. |
#22
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Knowing when you are overflying something
Erik writes:
Reporting position is all about just letting people know what direction to look for you. Telling them that you're crossing the XYZ VOR or the football stadium is one way to do that. I'm not IFR, but I've never heard anyone get a request to cross a particular point, I have heard them tell pilots to turn left/right to a particular heading. I've regularly heard "cross XYZZY at or below 12000." Do not be one of these people that call every damn thing you do. Why not? You can never be too aware of your situation. I don't care if you were at 3000 and are going to 2000. Someone who is at 2000 and things I'm still at 3000 might care a lot. ... but there's plenty of people out there that make completely useless calls. I'm departing to the north. Now I'm heading north at 2500. Now I'm 5 miles north of the airport. Now I'm at 3000. I DON'T CARE GO AWAY. If you were in their path, you'd care a lot. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. |
#23
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Knowing when you are overflying something
Maxwell writes:
The only time you need to look straight down is while skydiving. Then you are looking through an open door, and with very little experience you can judge to a couple hundred feet from 10,500. The parachute does the rest. I think I'll pass on that. Like many real pilots, I'm afraid of heights. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. |
#24
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Knowing when you are overflying something
Mxsmanic wrote:
Because I may have to say "over XYZ" when reporting my position, or heed instructions from ATC to "cross XYZ" and I wanted to know how to figure out when I'm actually over something. Your question is answered in the AIM under en-route procedures. |
#25
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Knowing when you are overflying something
On Apr 19, 7:29 am, Erik wrote:
Mxsmanic wrote: Maxwell writes: Why would a pilot care? When reporting position, or when following instructions to "cross XYZ at 6000," or whatever. Or when giving the location of a family in distress next to their SUV below. As its mad mixedup who never gets into an aircraft the situation will never arise. The golfball drops get first prize |
#26
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Knowing when you are overflying something
Mxsmanic wrote: Maxwell writes: The only time you need to look straight down is while skydiving. Then you are looking through an open door, and with very little experience you can judge to a couple hundred feet from 10,500. The parachute does the rest. I think I'll pass on that. Like many real pilots, I'm afraid of heights. Somehow I'm not empathising any more. |
#27
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Knowing when you are overflying something
Mxsmanic wrote:
Erik writes: Reporting position is all about just letting people know what direction to look for you. Telling them that you're crossing the XYZ VOR or the football stadium is one way to do that. I'm not IFR, but I've never heard anyone get a request to cross a particular point, I have heard them tell pilots to turn left/right to a particular heading. I've regularly heard "cross XYZZY at or below 12000." Do not be one of these people that call every damn thing you do. Why not? You can never be too aware of your situation. I don't care if you were at 3000 and are going to 2000. Someone who is at 2000 and things I'm still at 3000 might care a lot. ... but there's plenty of people out there that make completely useless calls. I'm departing to the north. Now I'm heading north at 2500. Now I'm 5 miles north of the airport. Now I'm at 3000. I DON'T CARE GO AWAY. If you were in their path, you'd care a lot. Has anyone used the word douchebag yet? |
#28
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Knowing when you are overflying something
"Mxsmanic" wrote in message ... Maxwell writes: The only time you need to look straight down is while skydiving. Then you are looking through an open door, and with very little experience you can judge to a couple hundred feet from 10,500. The parachute does the rest. I think I'll pass on that. Like many real pilots, I'm afraid of heights. Well hell, that's certainly no surprize, but it was a complete answer to you question. If you don't like it, take it over to rec.aviation.student where it belonged in the first place. Cuz you will never be a pilot either, and until you do, you won't even be a student. |
#29
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Knowing when you are overflying something
On 2007-04-18 12:02:54 -0700, Erik said:
Maxwell wrote: "Mxsmanic" wrote in message ... How do you know when you are exactly overflying a specific spot on the ground? It's it just a matter of knowing your particular aircraft, or are there tricks that can help to determine this? I know you can look off the tip of your wing to see if you're abeam something (such as a runway), but how can you tell when you're right over something? I presume there's no way to look straight down from most aircraft, and it seems like the view over the nose is often several miles away. Why would a pilot care? You don't want to pelt noncombatants with errant golf balls! A golf ball (or anything else) doesn't drop straight down. You have to release it before you reach your target as it continues to move forward at the speed of the aircraft. Best if you can get a wind report from the ground just before you arrive in the area. Then you can use your E6B (You knew that thing had to be good for something, right?) to compute how far forward the ball will travel before hitting the ground, assuming you know the rate of fall and the altitude of the aircraft. You then use the E6B to compute the amount of wind drift for that period of time and you also have to allow for the fact that the ball will decelerate its forward movement due to wind resistance as it falls. But the hard part is figuring out the rate of fall, which has to be determined experimentally. After that the rest is easy. Using a scale diagram of the target area with prominent features marked on it (or, heck, an aerial photo works, too), you can then quickly plot the forward distance to the target, mark that on the map, plot the wind vector, mark that on the map, and use landmarks to put you directly over the drop point. Best to use a point in front of you that you will always be able to see during the bomb run, and a side point that can be seen from the plane anywhere in the DZ. Best to work in a team of two. One guy flies the plane and the other plots the drop and actually drops the ball. As you approach the target area you run through the drop checklist -- 10 minutes to drop, descend to final drop altitude, 5 minutes to drop, flaps, gear, winds, plot, line up the aircraft on the aiming reference (or offset by the amount calculated by the bombardier), open the window, start time from lateral visual reference (note that you do not choose a lateral visual reference for the actual drop point -- too hard -- but instead you have a fixed reference about a minute before the drop and time from that), 30 seconds to drop, 15 seconds to drop, 10 seconds to drop, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, PICKLE (or GREEN LIGHT, if you have one, for DROP) or NO DROP (you don't want these two commands to sound the same), time to the end of the drop zone (assuming you are dropping a bunch of golf balls), STOP DROP (or RED LIGHT, if you have one), clean, climb, turn, take evasive action, etc. There are some safety considerations. You don't want the golf ball hitting your tail or denting a strut, so you have to lower the ball out the window or door as much as possible and then drop it straight down. Don't throw it forward; you might hit the prop. If you can mark the target with a bright orange piece of plastic and have people on the ground to keep innocent bystanders away, that is also good, but military necessity must rule. You generally do not want to drop from lower than 500' AGL. You don't want to go hitting any trees. Not that I have done this or given it much thought. :-) Okay, I was a navigator/bombardier on C-130 Hercules planes, and had one of the most consistently accurate drop records in our wing. But aside from that.... So, bottom line, the only reason you need to know you are over an exact point is indeed if you are going to drop something (or photograph something straight down) and the way you tell you are there is to line up on two objects in front -- so that they are line with each other -- and two objects in line with each other to the side. Roads work well. So do utility lines, fences, buildings, and rows of crops or trees. Man likes straight lines, and that makes it easier for other men to drop things on him. -- Waddling Eagle World Famous Flight Instructor |
#30
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Knowing when you are overflying something
C J Campbell wrote:
Not that I have done this or given it much thought. :-) Okay, I was a navigator/bombardier on C-130 Hercules planes, and had one of the most consistently accurate drop records in our wing. But aside from that.... So, bottom line, the only reason you need to know you are over an exact point is indeed if you are going to drop something (or photograph something straight down) and the way you tell you are there is to line up on two objects in front -- so that they are line with each other -- and two objects in line with each other to the side. Roads work well. So do utility lines, fences, buildings, and rows of crops or trees. Man likes straight lines, and that makes it easier for other men to drop things on him. Hmmm. So my golf ball accuracy can become far better. So basically, make crosshairs with landmarks, then calculate forward travel and wind. Check. My neighbor's car is in real trouble now. |
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