Opinions on a M20J

"Steven Barnes" wrote in message om...
Doesn't leaving the tanks partially empty cause problems with condensation
or something along those lines?

The only time I've ever found water in my tanks was when an IA didn't
properly adjust the caps after replacing the O-rings. As a general
rule, my partner and I agree to never leave the plane with more than
15 gals per side. Sometimes we leave it will much less. My theory is
that if your flight is so full of danger that you need to land with 3
hours of fuel, you probably should consider not going. We also have an
on-board fuel computer. The performance of a Mooney with 30 gals of
gas is WAY better than a Mooney with 64 gals. Putting 64 gals of gas
in a Mooney is like using a Corvette to pull your boat. It just makes
it slow. We use a stick to measure the tanks, I've never found the
computer to be off by more than 0.2 gals.

-Robert

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
om...

4) Its crosswind performance is ugly, particularly for take-offs. The
undercarriage uses rubber disks for its springs, and the wing is very
low to
the ground. Hence any bumps and you lose any side force from the
wheels,
and you have a lot of lift relatively early in the take-off roll. If you
operate an M20J from a single runway airport in a windy part of the
world,
this may be an issue. If you only rarely have to deal with 20 knot
crosswinds, no problem.

I fly around the Southwest. Take off and landing with 25-30 knots of
cross wind is no problem.

That does surprise me. I'm coming to the conclusion that either:

a) you measure knots differently :-)
b) you accept different levels of risk
or
c) you have a technique that I will never master

I'm quite happy to accept that it's (c), but would still offer the caution
about xwind performance to a prospective M20J purchaser.

While many manufacturers choose to demonstrate 20 or 25 kt for
certification, Mooney gave the M20J the bare minimum 11 kt (0.2 Vso) max
demonstrated crosswind component. That suggests to me that crosswind
performance was not high on the list of selling features.

Julian

I fly around the Southwest. Take off and landing with 25-30 knots of
cross wind is no problem.

That does surprise me. I'm coming to the conclusion that either:

a) you measure knots differently :-)
b) you accept different levels of risk
or
c) you have a technique that I will never master

I'm quite happy to accept that it's (c), but would still offer the caution
about xwind performance to a prospective M20J purchaser.

While many manufacturers choose to demonstrate 20 or 25 kt for
certification, Mooney gave the M20J the bare minimum 11 kt (0.2 Vso) max
demonstrated crosswind component. That suggests to me that crosswind
performance was not high on the list of selling features.

Those numbers didn't sound right so I checked my 1965 M20C (short
rudder) manual which lists a demonstrated crosswind of 15 kt (17 mph).
I bet the M20J is higher than that. I have landed in up to 20 kt
with not much rudder left. 25-30 kt, well, that's a lot. Could it be
done, I bet. I'll be happy to try it in your airplane; I just don't
like the thought of having to file an insurance claim for a prop
strike and the associated downtime.
Bob Miller

"Bob Miller" wrote in message
m...

Those numbers didn't sound right so I checked my 1965 M20C (short
rudder) manual which lists a demonstrated crosswind of 15 kt (17 mph).
I bet the M20J is higher than that.

No I promise you, it's 11 knots (at least it was on our 1982 M20J). That
doesn't necessarily mean that the M20J has less capability, just that Mooney
didn't certify it to that capability.

Julian Scarfe

On 6 Sep 2004 10:28:08 -0700, (Bob Miller) wrote:

Those numbers didn't sound right so I checked my 1965 M20C (short
rudder) manual which lists a demonstrated crosswind of 15 kt (17 mph).
I bet the M20J is higher than that. I have landed in up to 20 kt
with not much rudder left. 25-30 kt, well, that's a lot. Could it be
done, I bet. I'll be happy to try it in your airplane; I just don't
like the thought of having to file an insurance claim for a prop
strike and the associated downtime.

Bob,

Let me emphasize, in case you aren't aware, that the "demonstrated"
crosswind component in our a/c is NOT a limitation. It usually reflects
ONLY the test flight done on the first day when the crosswind exceeded that
required by the regulations (which is some percentage of the stall speed -
I don't recall the exact number).

I know a 'C' can handle a 25 kt direct crosswind.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

"Julian Scarfe" wrote in message ...
"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
om...

4) Its crosswind performance is ugly, particularly for take-offs. The
undercarriage uses rubber disks for its springs, and the wing is very
low to
the ground. Hence any bumps and you lose any side force from the
wheels,
and you have a lot of lift relatively early in the take-off roll. If you
operate an M20J from a single runway airport in a windy part of the
world,
this may be an issue. If you only rarely have to deal with 20 knot
crosswinds, no problem.

I fly around the Southwest. Take off and landing with 25-30 knots of
cross wind is no problem.

That does surprise me. I'm coming to the conclusion that either:

a) you measure knots differently :-)
b) you accept different levels of risk
or
c) you have a technique that I will never master

I'm quite happy to accept that it's (c), but would still offer the caution
about xwind performance to a prospective M20J purchaser.

I tell you, once you get down into ground effect you just don't feel
the cross wind in the Mooney at all. Of course, I started my life
flying 800lbs Aeroncas so I'm used to really feeling wind.

-Robert

I fly around the Southwest. Take off and landing with 25-30 knots of
cross wind is no problem. The plane sit so low that you don't even
feel the cross wind in the flare.


I landed a C - Model Mooney in a 52 knot quartering headwind in Gage OK. It was
not easy but didn't make palms sweat. A 40 knot wind in a Cessna is about the
same.

In the panhandle of TX - OK the windsock is made out of a log chain. This is
the reason you need a Bellanca if you are going to fly a single in the wind.

"Julian Scarfe" wrote
If you're in the market for a fast, fuel-efficient single-engined tourer,
there are 4 reasons not to buy a Mooney:

Actually, there is one you missed. Cabin room.

If you're a stick (tall and thin) and you like the sportscar position
(legs stretched out in front of you, stuck into a narrow channel) you
may well enjoy a Mooney. If you are shaped more typically, like to
sit upright, and want room between you and the front seat passenger -
think again.

The late model Mooneys are not so bad (the Ovation is almost
comfortable - almost) but I have some time in a K model Mooney and it
is by far the most tight and uncomfortable aircraft I have ever flown,
not excluding the gliders.

Of course I am what might be called gravitationally enhanced, so the
best advice I can give is this - decide how long your longest trips
are going to be, and sit in one for that long. Then make your
decision.

Michael

I flew this yesterday and it was nice (but what the hell do I know) He
is asking 105k but Vref says it is worth $113k. That seemed high but
again what do I know. Any Mooney owners out there want to give an
opinion on the M20J?

You've looked at two Mooneys now. If you are serious about getting one,
you really must join the Mooney list. You'll get more good information
there than anywhere else:

http://www.aviating.com/mooney/subscribe.html

At minimum, read Bob Kromer's flight test reports on the various Mooney
models:

http://www.mooneypilots.com/flight_test_reports.html

The 'J' will have newer avionics than the 'C' you looked at previously,
it also cruises faster and burns more fuel. Plan on 10-15 kts difference
in cruise speed between the 'C' and 'J', one gallon per hour more in
fuel burn in the 'J' and 50% or more in operating costs, considering
both fixed and variable costs. Of course the purchase price of a 'J' is
twice what a 'C' is.

Personally, I chose to buy 100% of a 'C' model Mooney rather than 50% of
a 'J'. You're looking at the same money up front and ongoing expenses
either way.
---
Ken Reed
http://www.dentalzzz.com

Ken,
I jsut subscribed to the Mooney list. Guess there is no turning back
now... :-) Thanks.

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL
Student airplane owner

Ken Reed wrote:

I flew this yesterday and it was nice (but what the hell do I know) He
is asking 105k but Vref says it is worth $113k. That seemed high but
again what do I know. Any Mooney owners out there want to give an
opinion on the M20J?


You've looked at two Mooneys now. If you are serious about getting one,
you really must join the Mooney list. You'll get more good information
there than anywhere else:

http://www.aviating.com/mooney/subscribe.html

At minimum, read Bob Kromer's flight test reports on the various Mooney
models:

http://www.mooneypilots.com/flight_test_reports.html

The 'J' will have newer avionics than the 'C' you looked at previously,
it also cruises faster and burns more fuel. Plan on 10-15 kts difference
in cruise speed between the 'C' and 'J', one gallon per hour more in
fuel burn in the 'J' and 50% or more in operating costs, considering
both fixed and variable costs. Of course the purchase price of a 'J' is
twice what a 'C' is.

Personally, I chose to buy 100% of a 'C' model Mooney rather than 50% of
a 'J'. You're looking at the same money up front and ongoing expenses
either way.
---
Ken Reed
http://www.dentalzzz.com