Airgizmo and Garmin 496 Install Saga

Apparently, installation of the Airgizmo panel dock is quite the touchy
subject up here in the Northeast. I know this has been a subject of a
number of threads but I figured I'd relay my experience so far. Since I
would like it integrated with my Garmin 430 and 340 audio panel (for
the audio out), I'd really rather have a pro do it.

First I contacted the local FSDO located on my home field (KFRG) and
talked to the avionics guy to solicit his point of view. His view was
that it was a VFR install and as such, it only needed a logbook
entry--no 337. However, he stressed that all the FSDO's are different
on this subject and I would need to contact the installer to get their
FSDO's take. He recommended getting a 337 anyway just in case. Fair
enough, makes sense to me.

After contacting the local shops, I quickly realize that none of the
Conn. shops will touch it and neither will the shops in Westshester or
New Jersey. All their FSDO's are dead set against the install. Well,
there goes the convenience of being local. An independent guy will do
the install in Rhode Island but I am hesitant because he has not done
any of these installs and at $70/hr, I don't feel like paying for his
schooling. Islip Avionics in Long Island was just rude ("so, where's
your paperwork on the thing? You got an STC? You talked to my FSDO?
Tell me the name of the guy. I don't need his phone number I just want
to see if you know the guy's name") and besides, they were $115/hr vs.
$70 everywhere else. That was the closest I've been in a while to
telling someone I don't know to f**k off.

That leaves Pennsylvania as the closest. I have a quote from Penn
Avionics and I'm trying to get a day to go there. They've done a number
of these already and know exactly what I want and their prices are not
bad. Their FSDO is OK with it as a logbook entry but they can do the
field approval for some extra $$. They also brought up a good point in
that if I get a 337 to cover me "just in case," I'll need another 337
to take it out if I sell the plane and want to keep the 496.

If anyone in the northeast area has had better success, I'd be
interested in a PIREP.

Jay, If you're reading, you had it easy with Atlas!

Marco

Call Conrad at the Radio Shop in Worcester , MA (ORH).

508-757-6954

Tell him I told you to call. It won't do you any good, but it may help me




"Marco Leon" wrote in message
ps.com...
Apparently, installation of the Airgizmo panel dock is quite the touchy
subject up here in the Northeast. I know this has been a subject of a
number of threads but I figured I'd relay my experience so far. Since I
would like it integrated with my Garmin 430 and 340 audio panel (for
the audio out), I'd really rather have a pro do it.

First I contacted the local FSDO located on my home field (KFRG) and
talked to the avionics guy to solicit his point of view. His view was
that it was a VFR install and as such, it only needed a logbook
entry--no 337. However, he stressed that all the FSDO's are different
on this subject and I would need to contact the installer to get their
FSDO's take. He recommended getting a 337 anyway just in case. Fair
enough, makes sense to me.

After contacting the local shops, I quickly realize that none of the
Conn. shops will touch it and neither will the shops in Westshester or
New Jersey. All their FSDO's are dead set against the install. Well,
there goes the convenience of being local. An independent guy will do
the install in Rhode Island but I am hesitant because he has not done
any of these installs and at $70/hr, I don't feel like paying for his
schooling. Islip Avionics in Long Island was just rude ("so, where's
your paperwork on the thing? You got an STC? You talked to my FSDO?
Tell me the name of the guy. I don't need his phone number I just want
to see if you know the guy's name") and besides, they were $115/hr vs.
$70 everywhere else. That was the closest I've been in a while to
telling someone I don't know to f**k off.

That leaves Pennsylvania as the closest. I have a quote from Penn
Avionics and I'm trying to get a day to go there. They've done a number
of these already and know exactly what I want and their prices are not
bad. Their FSDO is OK with it as a logbook entry but they can do the
field approval for some extra $$. They also brought up a good point in
that if I get a 337 to cover me "just in case," I'll need another 337
to take it out if I sell the plane and want to keep the 496.

If anyone in the northeast area has had better success, I'd be
interested in a PIREP.

Jay, If you're reading, you had it easy with Atlas!

Marco

Steve Foley wrote:
Call Conrad at the Radio Shop in Worcester , MA (ORH).

508-757-6954

Tell him I told you to call. It won't do you any good, but it may help me

I take it he won't do the install either.

"Marco Leon" wrote in message
oups.com...
Steve Foley wrote:
Call Conrad at the Radio Shop in Worcester , MA (ORH).

508-757-6954

Tell him I told you to call. It won't do you any good, but it may help me


I take it he won't do the install either.


I have no idea if he'll install it or not. I use him for a transponder check
every two years.

I doubt he'll give you a discount for knowing me. My next time, I may get
one for directing business his way.

Steve Foley wrote:
Call Conrad at the Radio Shop in Worcester , MA (ORH).

508-757-6954

Tell him I told you to call. It won't do you any good, but it may help me



I should have used Conrad for my 430 upgrade. He's a good guy.

KC

Download AC 43-210 from the FAA site.
This is the form for requesting a field approval. (an obstinate A&P would
probably say it needs a field approval)
I'm NOT saying one is required, but it I think it SHOULD result in a written
denial, which will be signed by an ASI with the reason for the denial.
c. Your field approval request may be denied due to the following reasons:

NOTE: If your field approval request is denied, the ASI will provide a
written response stating the reasons for the denial.

(1) The alteration or repair is a minor alteration or repair and requires
acceptable data, but does not need approved data.

(2) The alteration or repair is beyond the scope of a field approval.

(3) Some major alterations do not qualify for field approvals. The effect of
these alterations on a TC'd product may be so extensive that you would have
to apply for a new TC, amend the original TC, or apply for a Supplemental
Type Certificate (STC).

(4) The alteration or repair will result in an unsafe product.

d. After data approval has been issued or the ASI has indicated that the
alteration is going to be approved, an appropriately-rated person or agency
can perform the alteration or repair.

Take the denial to your A&P, have him call the ASI who signed the form.

It may or may not help. If nothing else, it's interesting reading.

Jim



"Marco Leon" wrote in message
ps.com...
Apparently, installation of the Airgizmo panel dock is quite the touchy
subject up here in the Northeast. I know this has been a subject of a
number of threads but I figured I'd relay my experience so far. Since I
would like it integrated with my Garmin 430 and 340 audio panel (for
the audio out), I'd really rather have a pro do it.

First I contacted the local FSDO located on my home field (KFRG) and
talked to the avionics guy to solicit his point of view. His view was
that it was a VFR install and as such, it only needed a logbook
entry--no 337. However, he stressed that all the FSDO's are different
on this subject and I would need to contact the installer to get their
FSDO's take. He recommended getting a 337 anyway just in case. Fair
enough, makes sense to me.

After contacting the local shops, I quickly realize that none of the
Conn. shops will touch it and neither will the shops in Westshester or
New Jersey. All their FSDO's are dead set against the install. Well,
there goes the convenience of being local. An independent guy will do
the install in Rhode Island but I am hesitant because he has not done
any of these installs and at $70/hr, I don't feel like paying for his
schooling. Islip Avionics in Long Island was just rude ("so, where's
your paperwork on the thing? You got an STC? You talked to my FSDO?
Tell me the name of the guy. I don't need his phone number I just want
to see if you know the guy's name") and besides, they were $115/hr vs.
$70 everywhere else. That was the closest I've been in a while to
telling someone I don't know to f**k off.

That leaves Pennsylvania as the closest. I have a quote from Penn
Avionics and I'm trying to get a day to go there. They've done a number
of these already and know exactly what I want and their prices are not
bad. Their FSDO is OK with it as a logbook entry but they can do the
field approval for some extra $$. They also brought up a good point in
that if I get a 337 to cover me "just in case," I'll need another 337
to take it out if I sell the plane and want to keep the 496.

If anyone in the northeast area has had better success, I'd be
interested in a PIREP.

Jay, If you're reading, you had it easy with Atlas!

Marco

Field approvals are 100% discretionary. They can deny them on the basis
that they don't feel like it, if that's what they want to do. And
there's nothing you can do about it.

Mike Granby wrote:
Field approvals are 100% discretionary. They can deny them on the basis
that they don't feel like it, if that's what they want to do.


Hogwash.


And
there's nothing you can do about it.


FSDO is not in the loop anymore as all field approvals go right to OKC now.

Newps wrote:

Hogwash

I disagree. If the FSDO don't want to issue the Field Approval, you
have no further recourse, except to try and get it through a different
FSDO.

FSDO is not in the loop anymore as
all field approvals go right to OKC now.

Nonsense. I got a field approval last year on a Boom Beam, and it was
most certainly sent to the FSDO. The submission goes to the FSDO, and
then perhaps to the ACO if it's particular complicated, but it's still
the FSDO that controls the process. Now, the completed 337s go straight
to OK City, but that's something else entirely.

See...

http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/air_cert...d_approv_proc/

Mike Granby wrote:
Newps wrote:


Hogwash


I disagree. If the FSDO don't want to issue the Field Approval, you
have no further recourse, except to try and get it through a different
FSDO.

You miss the point. It doesn't need a field approval in the first
place. Find a mechanic with some balls.




FSDO is not in the loop anymore as
all field approvals go right to OKC now.


Nonsense. I got a field approval last year on a Boom Beam,


Yes, last year. As of the last few weeks local FSDO's are out of the
loop. All 337's go to OKC now and are not reviewed for airworthiness.



and it was
most certainly sent to the FSDO. The submission goes to the FSDO, and
then perhaps to the ACO if it's particular complicated, but it's still
the FSDO that controls the process. Now, the completed 337s go straight
to OK City, but that's something else entirely.

FSDO is completely out of the picture. Your options are to get a
mechanic who knows the regs and realizes an Air Gizmo is not now and not
ever something that needs a field approval. For something that does
need approval you can either submit it to the FAA in OKC and they will
get around to it when they get around to it. This could take years.
Another option is to hire a DER to provide your mechanic with the
required data. Either way the local FSDO doesn't have thing one to say
about it.