Cross Country the main focus of soaring?

"Ray Lovinggood" wrote in message
...
Bill,

I like and understand your concept, but will add my
two-cent's.

We do have members on our club's Board who don't fly
much if at all, but contribute mightily to the club's
wellfare.

No doubt this happens. However, a non-flyer will not have the same
perspective as a current, active pilot. This risks, even if inadvertantly,
leading the club in a direction at odds with the present needs of active
pilots.


I think our club has also recruited at least one of
the younger (age and low flying time) members to run
for Board Member. We want to hear 'their' voice too,
not just the voices from the crusty old-timers.

What IS amazing (probably not really) is that on club
meetings, held once every two months, the same crowd
shows up and not the younger group. It would be interesting
to talk to ALL members about opportunities to fly cross-country,
attend contests or fun-fly's with a club ship, or safety
issues, etc. with more than the same old choir, but
folks don't seem to show for the meetings.

You really need to find out why the younger members don't show. It is
critical to attracting younger people to soaring. I have asked young people
why they didn't participate the answer went like this: "Aw, it's just a
bunch of grumpy old control freaks fighting for control - I don't need the
hassle." That was a dead-on observation.

When was the last time you asked a young person for their opinion and then
acted on it? Let me say without reservation, I LIKE the current generation
of young people - tattoos and all. They have very good ideas and they will
tell you if you ask and will really appreciate it if you listen to them.

I have learned a little ritual with young student pilots. I take them aside
to a quiet place and ask, "tell me what we are doing wrong and what we are
doing right - I really want to know". I always get an earfull, most of it
spot on. Then I act on that information.

By listening to young people you make friends. It's really an ego boost for
an old coot to have a young friend who thinks you're cool.

Bill Daniels

In article ,
Bert Willing wrote:
Landing on an airfield is not outlanding. What we refer to as outlanding
typically in Europe is 1000ft (if lucky) of unknown pasture.

A good point and (I think) a good distinction. Maybe for clarity
I should use different terms. An airport is a public use
airport, an airfield or airstrip is not public use but
is intended for aircraft, and an "outlanding" is anything
that isn't an airport or airstrip.

In that sense I've never had an "outlanding" and I'm really looking
forward to continuing that trend. But I can certainly
see how that would be different in other places, where
airstrips are very uncommon but flat, landable pastures are
frequent.


--
Bert Willing

ASW20 "TW"


"Mark James Boyd" a écrit dans le message de news:
416dc11d$1@darkstar...

I should also add that personally I flew maybe half-dozen X-Cs
and landed out three times (at planned and scouted airports)
before I flew 5 hours.




--

------------+
Mark J. Boyd

In article ,
Stefan wrote:
Bert Willing wrote:

Landing on an airfield is not outlanding. What we refer to as outlanding
typically in Europe is 1000ft (if lucky) of unknown pasture.

I just tried to remember when an outlanding field I had to use actually
offered 1000 ft. Can't think of one. But then, this is the reason that
in our club, "each landing is a precision landing", no matter how
generous the runway might be. The precicion we require at our annual
check flight is touching down and coming to a full stop within a
predefined area of 150m.

It's really struck home to me the difference between stall speeds
of various aircraft and the importance of headwind. With a recent
student we did precision landings with tail and headwind,
only 5-10 knot difference, and it was startling to him
the huge difference.

And the 1-26 with me at 160# in it? Talk about a short
landing! With 5-10 knots on the nose, 50 feet isn't hard to
muster.

The hardest thing for me has always been determining wind direction
when in an unfamiliar area. With no vegetation or water or
dust or flags, etc., I have a real hard time doing it without
GPS or a wind circle (ground ref).

The effects of wind were probably the biggest new surprise to
me as a transition pilot to gliders. And I can see how always practicing
precision landings into a known headwind with known obstacles could
weaken my judgement skills for the (hope I never do it) outlanding.


--

------------+
Mark J. Boyd

Mark James Boyd wrote:

The hardest thing for me has always been determining wind direction
when in an unfamiliar area.

Do one circle and you'll know.

The effects of wind were probably the biggest new surprise to
me as a transition pilot to gliders.

Actually, it *is* one of the biggest new surprises. As I always say:
Glider pilots fly with the weather, power pilots fly despite the weather.

Stefan

In article ,
Stefan wrote:
Mark James Boyd wrote:

I think the Bronze Badge training is quite sufficient before a first X-C.
And two flights of two hours is enough, I'm not sure what more
is gained by a 5 hour flight before ones first 50km attempt.

What's gained by 5 hours compared by 2 times 2 hours? Two things: First,
during 5 hours, the weather conditions will change. Everybody can stay
up between 13:00 and 15:00.
Sounds good. Send 'em on their X-C between 13:00 and 15:00.

5 hours is a little bit more difficult. And
more educating.

I completely agree. I think it's educational, but unneccessary
in our particular case. I also think there are some people
(myself included) who would generally rather fly less than 5
hours on every flight, but enjoy mild X-Cs (less than 300km).

Personally, if a five hour duration flight was required
before I could fly my first X-C (meaning out of glide
range from the gliderport), I would likely have chosen a different
club.

Of course, this depends on where you fly. Second, it's
the proof that you can stand it for 5 hours. Thermals get weaker in the
evening. Incidentally, this is the time when you get tired. Both
increase the chance of an outlanding... for which you should be
concentrated.

Depends on where you fly. Yep, I believe this. I can see
places where testing a student's endurance before letting them
fly X-C could be important. I remember a lot of situations where
I launched too early, or encountered an inversion, or was
in the wrong place struggling to stay aloft. But I'm not sure "5 hours"
is a magic number. I was personally very satisfied with a lot
of 1-3 hour flights before my first 50km X-C.

Although there is one very valid need for endurance: after my
first successful 50k (which took maybe 1.5 hours) I had
to circle in fading lift for over an hour waiting for the
retrieve tug so he could witness my landing as my O/O !

;P

Different strokes, I guess...

--

------------+
Mark J. Boyd

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I think there
should be at least one board spot for the LEAST
qualified member. The youngest licensee,
the guy who just got his Silver Badge, the newest
member, the newest CFI, etc. should be given
a seat on the youth committee, the retrieve committee,
the membership committee, the flight committee, etc.

Sort of a "reverse seniority." I've seen this work
particularly well in helping introduce new
blood, but in a small enough dose to not be disruptive.

It is tougher for younger members to attend:
being a grandparent is sometimes easier than being a parent,
being a retiree is sometimes easier than starting a
fledgling career, refinancing a house is sometimes
easier than buying one.

Based on this, maybe the board meeting Tuesday at
2pm isn't such a great idea? How about the Catalyst
nightclub at 7pm right before the band starts? :P

In article ,
Ray Lovinggood wrote:
Bill,

I like and understand your concept, but will add my
two-cent's.

We do have members on our club's Board who don't fly
much if at all, but contribute mightily to the club's
wellfare.

I think our club has also recruited at least one of
the younger (age and low flying time) members to run
for Board Member. We want to hear 'their' voice too,
not just the voices from the crusty old-timers.

What IS amazing (probably not really) is that on club
meetings, held once every two months, the same crowd
shows up and not the younger group. It would be interesting
to talk to ALL members about opportunities to fly cross-country,
attend contests or fun-fly's with a club ship, or safety
issues, etc. with more than the same old choir, but
folks don't seem to show for the meetings.

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA
LS1-d 'W8'

At 19:36 14 October 2004, Bill Daniels wrote:
I have had experiences very similar to Uli' and Mat's
and I know of many
others. The following comments apply only to USA glider
clubs since I am
not familiar with clubs outside the US but I have the
impression that non-US
clubs have far better governance.

The pattern I have noticed is that soaring clubs are
not infrequently 'taken
over' by non-aviators or, at least, pilots without
any current significant
achievements. Lacking these accomplishments, their
attempts at club
management are, to say the least, counterproductive.
At worst, they drive
away new members and glider pilots who could make a
significant contribution
to the organization if allowed to do so. This starts
a downward spiral
where bad pilots drive away good ones and attract the
bad ones.

There is a group of people who see their mission as
simply running things.
They see no need to be actually involved with soaring
beyond one or two
flights a year wherein they scare themselves silly.
This flight 'checks the
box' and provides them with a topic for discussion
over beers at a local
dive for the subsequent 12 months.

With the view that the best clubs are governed by active
XC glider pilots
with advanced ratings, badges and contest standings,
I propose that any new
clubs still writing their bylaws and those in a position
to re-write theirs
consider setting minimum competency requirements for
club officers and board
members.

For example:

1. Keep the dead wood cleared by requiring that every
officer and board
member will have flown every glider as in the club
fleet solo within the
preceding 12 months. Failure to do so will be considered
a letter of
resignation. (This, at least, proves they CAN fly.
It also requires that
an instructor certify them competent in the club fleet.)

2. In a shift from a pure democracy to a semi-meritocracy,
handicap
candidates for club office with reference to their
achievements as pilots.
For example an instructor with a Diamond badge and
current contest ranking
would outrank a student pilot. This instructor would
have his vote total
multiplied by a factor of say, 2. Appropriate multipliers
for lesser
achievements would also apply.

When all positions of power are filled with accomplished,
competent people,
bureaucratic obstacles to cross country, advanced training,
winch launch
etc.. are likely to vanish.

I would further propose that any club without a clear
pro-growth mission
statement and evidence of performance in the form of
actual new members be
denied the annual SSA dues rebate and suffer any other
sanctions as are
possible such as ineligibility for SSA insurance discounts.

Bill Daniels



'Marian Aldenhövel' wrote in message
...
Hi,

unfortunately the board members have decided to eject
me from the
club if I partipate any more in this discussion online.

My suggestion would be a different club. If at all
possible.

Ciao, MM
--
Marian Aldenhövel, Rosenhain 23, 53123 Bonn.
Fon +49 228 624013, Fax +49 228 624031.
http://www.marian-aldenhoevel.de
'FOUR MORE BEERS!'







--

------------+
Mark J. Boyd

Mark James Boyd wrote:

But I'm not sure "5 hours"
is a magic number.

It's not. A neighbour club asks for "either once 5 hours or twice 4
hours", and I'm certain that other clubs have even other rules. Our club
happens to require 5 hours, and this is neither better nor worse than
other rules.

The point is, in a real world club, you need strict rules. Otherwise it
will be the source of eternal discussions ("why is he allowed and I'm
not"). Yes, there are good times when everything works well and it would
do so without rules. But unevitably there will be bad times, and all
those rules are for those times.

I live well with our rules, if I were in an other club, I supposedly
would live well with their rules.

Stefan

Mark James Boyd wrote:

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I think there
should be at least one board spot
....

I don't know about your club. But in our, the problem isn't that there
is no place in the board. We are ever so happy if somebody volunteers to
do the work! Because all we want to do is fly. (Cross country, to stay
on topic.)

Stefan

mat Redsell wrote:

Thanks for all of the good responses to my original quesiton on Cross
Country... unfortunately the board members have decided to eject me from the
club if I partipate any more in this discussion online.

Count your blessings and move on. There must be clubs in your area with
rational members/directors.

Good luck.


Jack

Count your blessings and move on. There must be clubs in your area with
rational members/directors.


A few weeks ago, my club had a certain review performed by an established
authority in our hobby. The President, some directors, some instructors, and a
member from the safety committee had a meeting with the review people at a
picnic table just a few feet from where I was working on my sailplane.

It was funny to hear some of the half truths told my the president. For
instance, "One of our members is a Airframes and Instruments (AI)". While this
is true, the AI is actually an inactive member. None of the president's
cronies clarified that point.

Every time I walked towards the tail of the glider, one of the board members in
particular would look at me like a deer caught in the headlights, scared that I
would say something...I just smiled because I knew it was such a fiasco.

About an hour into this meeting, the head of the safety committee got up,
grabbed me by the shoulder and walked me off about 15 feet, yet still in full
view of the authorities. He told me that if I knew what was good for me I
would keep my mouth shut. I denied that I was going to say anything. He said
I was going to! He then told me to stop smiling!

It was obvious to all what had transpired, based on the body language, but no
apology was forthcoming.

Welcome to the wonderful "brotherhood" of gliding.

Most students take over two years to get their tickets at my club, so after a
year, they are voting members. The instructors then basically tell them who to
vote for. Of our current board, I think over 80% are instructors, and I think
only one of them has earned a 50k. Pretty sad.

So bring it on...you've kicked me off the instruction committee and told
students that I'm dangerous, don't know what I'm talking about, and don't
follow the FAR's...so what's next in you ball of tricks?

Jim Vincent
N483SZ
illspam