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#1
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Hold at VOR for 2v2
So I am in the hold at the BJC VOR for the VOR DME approach to 2v2.
http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0405/09041VDA.PDF At what point do I leave the hold and intercept the 345 radial? At the VOR? Or at the end of the outbound leg? Thx |
#3
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Good one.
I'd go to the VOR then track outbound. From the outbound leg to the radial you'd be on the non-holding side for sure or perhaps more to the point, that piece of airspace isn't part of the approach. Having said that, the turn at the VOR is going to have you 'far' from the inbound course... Iain "Doug" wrote in message om... So I am in the hold at the BJC VOR for the VOR DME approach to 2v2. http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0405/09041VDA.PDF At what point do I leave the hold and intercept the 345 radial? At the VOR? Or at the end of the outbound leg? Thx |
#4
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On 20 May 2004 23:13:28 -0700, (Doug)
wrote: o I am in the hold at the BJC VOR for the VOR DME approach to 2v2. http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0405/09041VDA.PDF At what point do I leave the hold and intercept the 345 radial? At the VOR? Or at the end of the outbound leg? At first I was going to makes some smart-alecky remark like "when you are cleared for the approach" but then I remembered that the direction of turns in the hold doesn't make it obvious. I would leave the hold at the VOR rather than at some unknown point in space at the end of an outbound leg. Follow the usual procedure of entering and exiting a holding pattern at the holding fix. The real question is which way to turn one arriving at the VOR. A right turn to intercept is shorter, but I would make a left turn. The location of the holding pattern is a function of airspace and terrain clearance issues, A right turn could very well put me into unprotected airspace. Besides, since I've already been making a bunch of left turns in the hold, it would be easier. So, I'd begin the intercept upon reaching the VOR by turning in the direction of the hold, but continuing the turn to 300° -315° to intercept the R-345 Mark Kolber APA/Denver, Colorado www.midlifeflight.com ====================== email? Remove ".no.spam" |
#5
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(Paul Tomblin) wrote in
: In a previous article, (Doug) said: So I am in the hold at the BJC VOR for the VOR DME approach to 2v2. http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0405/09041VDA.PDF At what point do I leave the hold and intercept the 345 radial? At the VOR? Or at the end of the outbound leg? Note that the depicted hold is a missed approach hold, not a hold in lieu of a procedure turn. If you were in the missed approach hold and you decided to do the approach again, I think you'd have to go to the VOR, since it's the IAF. I'm not sure how you're supposed to get back on course since it says "Procedure Turn NA" in the profile view. Without that notation, I'd think the prudent thing would be a left turn to 165 and then a procedure turn to the left. Turning right to intercept the 345 radial from there seems dangerous since it's leading to the high terrain. The authorized altitude to start the approach is 9200' which is above the terrain close to the VOR. A right turn to intercept R-345 is not particularly dangerous at 9200' unless you have a huge wind out fo the east. Presumably 8000' will be authorized if radar monitoring is available. |
#6
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Doug wrote: So I am in the hold at the BJC VOR for the VOR DME approach to 2v2. http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0405/09041VDA.PDF At what point do I leave the hold and intercept the 345 radial? At the VOR? Or at the end of the outbound leg? Thx First, the alignment of the holding pattern is poor procedure design. The maximum angle should be 120 degrees; it's 143. Having said that since you're required to have DME to fly this approach you should treat the VOR as a fly-by "waypoint," which you can do quite accruately with DME. The lead distance depends upon your speed. With that angle 1.5 to 2.0 miles should roll you pretty well out on course. At the VOR there is lots of protected airspace at 8,000; 4 miles each side of the 345 radial with an additional 2 mile secondary area on each of those sides. Those widths ramp down to primaries of 1.5 miles each side of course at the FAF, with .33 mile secondaries on each side. If you have previously missed the approach and are holding at 8,000, then ATC clears you for another approach at that altitude, they have approved beginning the approach at 8,000. Contrary to what someone else says, ATC radar is not required for that approval. |
#7
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On 20 May 2004 23:13:28 -0700, (Doug) wrote:
So I am in the hold at the BJC VOR for the VOR DME approach to 2v2. http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0405/09041VDA.PDF At what point do I leave the hold and intercept the 345 radial? At the VOR? Or at the end of the outbound leg? Thx If I were in that hold and cleared for the approach, after passing the VOR (which is the IAF) I would then turn left (staying the same side of the VOR as the hold) to intercept the 345 radial. Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA) |
#8
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"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message ... In a previous article, (Doug) said: So I am in the hold at the BJC VOR for the VOR DME approach to 2v2. http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0405/09041VDA.PDF At what point do I leave the hold and intercept the 345 radial? At the VOR? Or at the end of the outbound leg? Note that the depicted hold is a missed approach hold, not a hold in lieu of a procedure turn. If you were in the missed approach hold and you decided to do the approach again, I think you'd have to go to the VOR, since it's the IAF. I'm not sure how you're supposed to get back on course since it says "Procedure Turn NA" in the profile view. Without that notation, I'd think the prudent thing would be a left turn to 165 and then a procedure turn to the left. Turning right to intercept the 345 radial from there seems dangerous since it's leading to the high terrain. Huh? Making up your own procedures and vectors is probably not a good idea. The chart clearly shows 8000' for the missed appch altitude (seems to be quite safe to me) and VOR crossing altitude is 9200', then down to other altitudes. So why is the hold for missed so special. Proc turn is NA in any case and the first time to the VOR/approach what are you going to do? Make up another of your turns? Follow the chart and don't guess - at the VOR turn inbound, intercept the radial as depicted and you will be fine. -- Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/ There is alleged to be an airport whose designator is ARP but I've never got any response to my attempts to locate it. -- Tanuki |
#9
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Richard Hertz wrote: Follow the chart and don't guess - at the VOR turn inbound, intercept the radial as depicted and you will be fine. Your view of "following the chart" is different than mine. With DME it makes much more sense to lead the turn so you ideally roll out on the 345 radial. Your way would result in a lot of overshoot. |
#10
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Paul Tomblin wrote: course since it says "Procedure Turn NA" in the profile view. Without that notation, I'd think the prudent thing would be a left turn to 165 and then a procedure turn to the left. Turning right to intercept the 345 radial from there seems dangerous since it's leading to the high terrain. ATC would expect you to go straight-in. If the holding pattern had been designed properly, it would be within 120 degrees of the inbound course, which would have made it okay for "NoPT." With a DME lead you can still do a nice job of "fly-by, thus not getting over on the high terrain side at all. Rolling your own course reversals is certainly not the way to go. |
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