23 July OSH accident audio

In article ,
"RST Engineering" wrote:

You proceed up the railroad tracks to what we commonly call "Fisk",
which is 500 yards east of the beach umbrella and directly over the railroad
tracks.

Isn't that the same point as FISKE?

In article et,
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

a. Clear aircraft to hold at selected, prominent geographical fixes which
can be easily recognized from the air, preferably those depicted on
sectional charts.

I like this one. Listen to the ATC controllers in the archive and you
will hear one of them telling aircraft to find another aircraft that is
already holding over an undefined location to follow the first aircraft.

My calculations show FISKE to be about 200 yards north of the railroad
tracks at Fisk Avenue. Anybody that has a better plotter than mine is
welcome to correct me.

Jim



"john smith" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"RST Engineering" wrote:

You proceed up the railroad tracks to what we commonly call "Fisk",
which is 500 yards east of the beach umbrella and directly over the
railroad
tracks.

Isn't that the same point as FISKE?

john smith wrote:

Isn't that the same point as FISKE?


FYI, the coordinates of Fisk in the Notam are identical to those of the FISKE waypoint (as shown on
Airnav and also my GPS database). Maybe this is all a moot point!

Jose,

No, but now the pilots, knowing more than before, can make their own
evalutions.


How? What changes in your evaluation from "hold there" to "hold there
because of an accident"?

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Steven,

What's "free mind capacity"?

I'm not a native speaker. You know what I mean if you want to.

That info gives pilots of average or better intelligence an idea of how long
the airport will be closed. Then they can decide if they're better off
continuing to hold or diverting to another airport and coming back later.

Ah, ok. So I must be below average intelligence, because I have seen/read about
vastly differing times needed for clearing of runways after accidents and would
have NO idea at all what timeframe I could figure for an event like that
without a vast amount of further details beyond "there's been an accident".
Good for you that you are so much smarter, I guess.


--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Thomas Borchert wrote:
Steven,


What's "free mind capacity"?


I'm not a native speaker. You know what I mean if you want to.


That info gives pilots of average or better intelligence an idea of how long
the airport will be closed. Then they can decide if they're better off
continuing to hold or diverting to another airport and coming back later.


Ah, ok. So I must be below average intelligence, because I have seen/read about
vastly differing times needed for clearing of runways after accidents and would
have NO idea at all what timeframe I could figure for an event like that
without a vast amount of further details beyond "there's been an accident".
Good for you that you are so much smarter, I guess.

Very few accidents take less than an hour to clear, that is just common
sense. Even raising an airplane after a gear-up landing is likely an
hour event at least. And that assumes no injured pax to clear.


Matt

gatt wrote:

Would you describe the ATC at Oskosh as "amateur," "hobbyist," "student,"
"volunteer", "ad hoc"...



The fact that someone earns a living at an activity means they're "a
professional". Even "a professional" can execute the activity in a more
professional or less professional manner.

I've seen this demonstrated nicely @ KDXR on a busy weekend. As I was
handed off from "the PROFESSIONALS" @ BDL approach to "the professional"
@ DXR tower, the difference was very clear. One individual was top
notch, fully on top of his game, and very "professional", while the
other should have been fired, as he let his Delta airspace degrade to a
very busy CTAF.

Any more hairs to split? G

"Thomas Borchert" wrote in message
...

How? What changes in your evaluation from "hold there" to "hold there
because of an accident"?


"Hold there because of an accident" provides an idea of how long the delay
will be, "hold there" does not.

"Thomas Borchert" wrote in message
...

Steven,


What's "free mind capacity"?


I'm not a native speaker. You know what I mean if you want to.


Not true. I have no idea what you meant, but I do want to know.



That info gives pilots of average or better intelligence an idea of how
long
the airport will be closed. Then they can decide if they're better off
continuing to hold or diverting to another airport and coming back later.


Ah, ok. So I must be below average intelligence, because I have seen/read
about
vastly differing times needed for clearing of runways after accidents and
would
have NO idea at all what timeframe I could figure for an event like that
without a vast amount of further details beyond "there's been an
accident".


That was my conclusion as well.