A proposal to increase membership, cross-country pilots, competitors,and world champions (USA).

Hey brad, who are you calling a geezer? Dennis ;-)

On Sunday, August 10, 2014 9:01:29 AM UTC-4, Kevin Brooker wrote:
Money is not the issue. People have plenty of cash to spend on

Snip


What the sport needs is more time in a day and longer attention spans. I

stopped flying because I didn't have enough time to participate how I

enjoyed it. Soaring is a selfish activity which requires a lot of time.


Snip

Time is a dwindling resource for many people, including me. I actively engaged in x-country years ago, when fewer work demands allowed me to take time off when conditions were ripe for a good day of soaring. In recent years, my schedule has been booked out weeks in advance, and it simply is not possible for me to get the time of in the middle of week like I use to. The same work demands have me going in on Saturdays and Sundays.

This may be an over generalization, but those who can afford this sport are generally career-successful individuals.. and many of them are experiencing the same increasing time crunch.

--

Kevin Brooker[/i][/color]
True for some Kevin.

I once called a lapsed SSA member to see why he'd dropped out after a year. Turns out he was president of a local Corvette owner's club. He tried soaring for a week, but hadn't soloed and gave it up. His expectation was way out of line. For some it's simply not a good fit. For others, given the chance, it becomes a lifetime pursuit. How do we give them that chance?

Frank Whiteley[/quote]

Frank,
I was an extremely active glider and power pilot for years; SSA state record keeper, successful contest pilot, state record holder, and headed up the committee to make Mt. Washington a National Historic Landmark of Soaring. My involvement went well beyond trying it for a week and deciding soaring wasn't a good fit.

What keeps me from flying is the lack of available time to participate in a way which is meaningful and enjoyable. Soaring requires a lot of discretionary time and the ability to be opportunistic with respect to the weather. If a potential pilot works Monday through Friday and only has weekends to complete domestic chores, and other recreational activities (go for a bike ride, run, exercise, visit friends/family) there is not much time left over to head to the airport. If the weather isn't flyable then the opportunity to get some stick time and feed the interest is gone past. Have a few weekends in a row with non-flyable weather and the interest wanes or is replaced by something not so conditional.

When my life changed to where the point of losing the opportunism, flying went away. I still head to the airport to visit soaring buddies and listen to storied and keep in touch but I haven't flown anything in at least two years. My glider sits in the trailer in the yard with hopes of getting the time to fly it but it is mostly just hanging onto a dream. I should divest of it or remove the canopy and plant it full of flowers. At least as a flower pot it will be getting some use.

Learning to fly requires a lot of time, specific conditions (just VFR not necessarily soarable) on a consistent basis in order to keep the student interested. There are too many other things to compete with which give more access. Learning to fly is also relatively difficult and society doesn't have the attention span of discipline to wait. Most people expect instant results and success. Soaring is also extremely solitary while participating. Most other activities are more communal and social while participating.

The number of barriers to growing the sport of soaring are monumental compared to the small hurdle of expense. American's have tons of discretionary income and an immense playing field to spend it. Expense is an easy scapegoat and blinds us from seeing what else needs to be done to grow the sport either by attracting new participants or keeping what we have.

On Monday, August 11, 2014 6:18:38 AM UTC-6, Kevin Brooker wrote:
--



Kevin Brooker

True for some Kevin.



I once called a lapsed SSA member to see why he'd dropped out after a

year. Turns out he was president of a local Corvette owner's club. He

tried soaring for a week, but hadn't soloed and gave it up. His

expectation was way out of line. For some it's simply not a good fit.

For others, given the chance, it becomes a lifetime pursuit. How do we

give them that chance?



Frank Whiteley



Frank,

I was an extremely active glider and power pilot for years; SSA state

record keeper, successful contest pilot, state record holder, and headed

up the committee to make Mt. Washington a National Historic Landmark of

Soaring. My involvement went well beyond trying it for a week and deciding

soaring wasn't a good fit.



What keeps me from flying is the lack of available time to participate in

a way which is meaningful and enjoyable. Soaring requires a lot of

discretionary time and the ability to be opportunistic with respect to the

weather. If a potential pilot works Monday through Friday and only has

weekends to complete domestic chores, and other recreational activities

(go for a bike ride, run, exercise, visit friends/family) there is not

much time left over to head to the airport. If the weather isn't flyable

then the opportunity to get some stick time and feed the interest is gone

past. Have a few weekends in a row with non-flyable weather and the

interest wanes or is replaced by something not so conditional.



When my life changed to where the point of losing the opportunism, flying

went away. I still head to the airport to visit soaring buddies and listen

to storied and keep in touch but I haven't flown anything in at least two

years. My glider sits in the trailer in the yard with hopes of getting the

time to fly it but it is mostly just hanging onto a dream. I should divest

of it or remove the canopy and plant it full of flowers. At least as a

flower pot it will be getting some use.



Learning to fly requires a lot of time, specific conditions (just VFR not

necessarily soarable) on a consistent basis in order to keep the student

interested. There are too many other things to compete with which give

more access. Learning to fly is also relatively difficult and society

doesn't have the attention span of discipline to wait. Most people expect

instant results and success. Soaring is also extremely solitary while

participating. Most other activities are more communal and social while

participating.



The number of barriers to growing the sport of soaring are monumental

compared to the small hurdle of expense. American's have tons of

discretionary income and an immense playing field to spend it. Expense is

an easy scapegoat and blinds us from seeing what else needs to be done to

grow the sport either by attracting new participants or keeping what we

have.









--

Kevin Brooker[/i][/color]

Agreed, discretionary time is probably more important then income. I've been doing a lot of grandparenting with two that are not yet ready for the gliderport. And also looking after affairs of estate of my late father-in-law, a much bigger project than for my parents. At least we're out of the cheap rentals business and only keeping the farm viable.

Outreach remains our most important imperative.

Frank

On Monday, August 11, 2014 8:18:38 AM UTC-4, Kevin Brooker wrote:

What keeps me from flying is the lack of available time to participate in a way which is meaningful and enjoyable.

Maybe people like Kevin will have the opportunity to re-involve themselves in the sport once their kids are in their 20s and the demands of their careers taper. It's good that they got their soaring chops at an early age. Having that expertise under their belts will make it a lot easier to get back into the sport in the future.

Kevin's experience seems typical; I did not have time to learn to soar until I was 56 and that was a bit too old to learn to soaring easily.

If we want to keep soaring alive, we will train young people to soar, expect that most of them will get too busy to participate in the sport, and then make it as easy as possible for them to reenter and stay active in the sport later in life. This is the long game.

With an eye to demographics, there will be fewer and fewer previously trained young-geezers reentering the sport in the next 15 years. What about marketing Ab Initio soaring to the affluent 50+ cohort?

Clubs and CFI-Gs are enthusiastic and successful when teaching young students who learn fast. Are they less successful with older harder-to-teach students? Who is good at teaching older students, what are their secrets, and how can those techniques become widespread?

Sure, we should train lots of young people, but we also need to recruit and train 50+ year old people to replace the people in their 70-80s. Older people will stick around and keep clubs afloat, and that will allow the hopefully steady stream of younger people to come and go.

On Monday, August 11, 2014 8:18:38 AM UTC-4, Kevin Brooker wrote:
--



Kevin Brooker

True for some Kevin.



I once called a lapsed SSA member to see why he'd dropped out after a

year. Turns out he was president of a local Corvette owner's club. He

tried soaring for a week, but hadn't soloed and gave it up. His

expectation was way out of line. For some it's simply not a good fit.

For others, given the chance, it becomes a lifetime pursuit. How do we

give them that chance?



Frank Whiteley



Frank,

I was an extremely active glider and power pilot for years; SSA state

record keeper, successful contest pilot, state record holder, and headed

up the committee to make Mt. Washington a National Historic Landmark of

Soaring. My involvement went well beyond trying it for a week and deciding

soaring wasn't a good fit.



What keeps me from flying is the lack of available time to participate in

a way which is meaningful and enjoyable. Soaring requires a lot of

discretionary time and the ability to be opportunistic with respect to the

weather. If a potential pilot works Monday through Friday and only has

weekends to complete domestic chores, and other recreational activities

(go for a bike ride, run, exercise, visit friends/family) there is not

much time left over to head to the airport. If the weather isn't flyable

then the opportunity to get some stick time and feed the interest is gone

past. Have a few weekends in a row with non-flyable weather and the

interest wanes or is replaced by something not so conditional.



When my life changed to where the point of losing the opportunism, flying

went away. I still head to the airport to visit soaring buddies and listen

to storied and keep in touch but I haven't flown anything in at least two

years. My glider sits in the trailer in the yard with hopes of getting the

time to fly it but it is mostly just hanging onto a dream. I should divest

of it or remove the canopy and plant it full of flowers. At least as a

flower pot it will be getting some use.



Learning to fly requires a lot of time, specific conditions (just VFR not

necessarily soarable) on a consistent basis in order to keep the student

interested. There are too many other things to compete with which give

more access. Learning to fly is also relatively difficult and society

doesn't have the attention span of discipline to wait. Most people expect

instant results and success. Soaring is also extremely solitary while

participating. Most other activities are more communal and social while

participating.



The number of barriers to growing the sport of soaring are monumental

compared to the small hurdle of expense. American's have tons of

discretionary income and an immense playing field to spend it. Expense is

an easy scapegoat and blinds us from seeing what else needs to be done to

grow the sport either by attracting new participants or keeping what we

have.









--

Kevin Brooker[/i][/color]

....says the guy who lives under the traffic pattern of the best little soaring club in the USA. You have access to soaring the rest of us dream about.

Come back any time Kevin, it's always great to see you.


Evan Ludeman

Great idea but Minden? How about Ionia, Michigan? ;-)

On Friday, August 8, 2014 1:14:02 PM UTC-4, Fox Two wrote:
There have been several threads on RAS recently about the disappointing state of our sport in the USA: a shrinking membership, few cross-country pilots, fewer contest pilots, and no world champions. If we're going to reverse these trends, we need more than contest rule tweaking and membership drive gimmicks. We need to make our sport exciting so that we don't just attract new members but, more importantly, keep the ones that we already have.



Our sport is about soaring long distances at fast speeds or performing energy-conserving aerobatics. Of course there are also the antique enthusiasts and those who enjoy simply boring holes in the sky above the airfield - but we sell the sex. We lose potential new members when they see the Schweizer 2-33, we lose existing members when there's nothing better to fly than a Grob 103, and we lose even more due to boredom because cross-country training is a rare luxury, and inexperienced pilots are reluctant to venture away from the nest alone. The problems of our sport all originate at the club level - and it will be up to the clubs to fix them. Our clubs need to offer high-performance gliders and training that goes beyond the FAA's Practical Test Standards.



The Europeans dominate this sport for the same reason the US military dominates the battlefield: they spend more money and train more than anybody else. There are national soaring centers to teach the teachers so they in turn can offer the highest-quality training to their club's members. With the assistance of their national organizations, European clubs blaze a clear path from debutant to the diamond badge, with training at every step of the way. Unfortunately, the European model won't work in the USA (something to do with our distrust of socialism), but we can build our own model of success based on theirs.



THINK BIG: Imagine a 'United States National Soaring Center.' Let's put it where even the Europeans would be envious: Minden. Employ professional instructors with state-of-the-art sailplanes teaching our clubs' instructors, offering year-round cross-country and mountain-wave camps, and coaching the US Teams. A pipe dream you say? It would be expensive for sure - but it wouldn't be impossible.



The SSA is a 501(c)3 non-profit organization, which means among other things, that it is able to receive tax-deductible donations. And it does. For example, in 2011 the SSA received a $1 million cash donation. Would $1 million pay for the National Soaring Center? No. But the SSA could use some of that money to get ALL of the clubs 501(c)3 tax status. A team of tax professionals, paid for by the SSA, could work with the clubs to restructure each club so that they could receive tax-deductible donations. Every club member would immediately benefit: club dues, for example, can be tax deductible. Few club members would object to paying higher dues if they were tax deductible, and some club members would love to make tax-deductible donations to the club. I would much rather give a thousand bucks to my club than to Uncle Sam! This would allow the clubs to finally leave the 1960's and get some gliders that aren't 50 years old. High-performance gliders would attract and retain more members, paying even more dues. Eventually, there would be enough money for the National Soaring Center in Minden.



It's not a sexy solution, but we would have a growing membership, more cross-country pilots and competitors, and maybe even a world champion.



Chris Fleming

I like the part about hot women..................where I fly they all work at the local coffee shop.

GK

On Sunday, August 10, 2014 3:41:21 PM UTC-6, Frank Whiteley wrote:
On Sunday, August 10, 2014 7:01:29 AM UTC-6, Kevin Brooker wrote:

Money is not the issue. People have plenty of cash to spend on



recreation and discretionary activities. Money is not the barrier to



entry. Look at the ski industry. A one day lift ticket costs more then



a tow, maybe to tows depending upon the ski area and glider operation.



New skis will set the skier back anywhere from $500-2000 depending upon



what they purchase. Look at motorcycling, off road vehicles; pick



something. Most are on-par with soaring or more expensive to begin



participating.







What the sport needs is more time in a day and longer attention spans. I



stopped flying because I didn't have enough time to participate how I



enjoyed it. Soaring is a selfish activity which requires a lot of time.











American's do not have the attention span. How much time is spent



hanging out at the strip compared to flying. If someone is interested in



taking up soaring look at the standing around time to flight/active



participation time ratio. Glider pilots spend a huge volume of time



standing around. By comparison, look at the stand around to



participation in the ski industry.







With gliders we cannot have the complete noob help out in a meaningful



way. Gliders are too expensive and having the "never before touched a



glider" person help us rig a ship doesn't happen. The hands on



participation of newcomers is really low. Instructors /club members talk



and they listen. We talk too much and do too little.







The mindset of people in 2014 is much different then in 1950-2000. To



survive and grow, the soaring (GA too) population has to change its



attitude and methods to capture today's youth. Aviation is trying to



adapt old ways to today and it isn't working. Aviation has to change the



paradigm and change is scary and difficult.







While seeking this new paradigm there will be lots of failures and some



success. What is there to lose by trying? Nothing since what is



happening now isn't working yet the aviation community seems to believe



if they keep going at the status quo it will work. This is a bit like



speaking louder to someone who doesn't understand our language. More



volume will not breed instant fluency.







Beside believing the aviation community should try something new, not



fear failure, and stop pinning the decline on expense, I have no



solutions to offer at this time.



















--



Kevin Brooker

True for some Kevin.



I once called a lapsed SSA member to see why he'd dropped out after a year. Turns out he was president of a local Corvette owner's club. He tried soaring for a week, but hadn't soloed and gave it up. His expectation was way out of line. For some it's simply not a good fit. For others, given the chance, it becomes a lifetime pursuit. How do we give them that chance?



Frank Whiteley

The starting point for understanding the growth problem is the fact that soaring is a very small sport embedded in a vast and incredibly diverse population. In that population there are probably enough wealthy "annuity kids" who will never need to work who could increase the number of glider pilots by an order of magnitude. There are a huge number of other special situations where individuals could take up the sport if they chose to. There is a target "market" "out there".

We fall into a trap when we project our own situations onto the general population. When we say "people" we are unconsciously saying "people like us".. We are too unique as individuals for that to work.

It's really not "the economy" or "kids these days" or a "70 hour week work ethic" etc... that's causing the growth problem. In fact, I don't think there's an external problem at all. Instead, I think we would do much better to look hard at our "product" and how it's marketed.

When a company's product is not selling, it's pointless to blame the customer. The route to success is always the same - improve the product and then do a better job of marketing it. Those go hand in hand - marketing won't help if the product is inferior nor will a better product succeed if no one knows about it. It's basic business 101.

Another poster nailed it when he suggested that most airports and glider operations in the US are simply not nice places to hang out. For every hour a student flies in a glider, probably three or more hours are spent on the ground at the airfield so it had better be a comfortable, interesting place if we expect them to come back. It's even more critical if the student brings family.

Old, ratty trainers are just as problematic. Even if a student can be persuaded that training in one is acceptable, a watching family member who can only judge appearances may think otherwise.

Both on the ground and in the air, our image is critical to success. The European model is a great place to start - then improve on it.

On Tuesday, August 12, 2014 6:26:08 AM UTC-7, Bill D wrote:



Another poster nailed it when he suggested that most airports and glider operations in the US are simply not nice places to hang out.


"Another poster nailed it when he suggested that most airports and glider operations in the US are simply not nice places to hang out."

Think about that when Minden is proposed as the national gliding center. While I'm sure a lovely place to live, it isn't listed in Conde Naste as one of the ten top destination resorts.....

Another difference between the US and Europe: In most European countries the National Gliding center is less than a days drive away, because the whole country is less than a days drive across. Not true in the US.